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Arch Linux Finally Rolling Out Glibc 2.27

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  • TemplarGR
    replied
    That dungeon troll is pathetic.

    The main difference between Arch and Debian is not how bleeding edge packages are, but the KISS philosophy VS the "i think i know what i am doing so i am going to change everything" philosophy of Debian.

    Take for example this:

    https://www.acunetix.com/vulnerabili...mber-generator

    For those who don't know (or don't remember), this happened because one Debian maintainer was getting some warnings when compiling openssl and changed the source code in order to clear them. He ruined the random number generator and produced predictable keys for Debian and all Debian derived distros. It took them 2 years to figure out the issue, an issue that could as well have been created on purpose to make debian based systems vulnerable.

    This was possible based on the Debian "we have to absolutely meddle into everything" philosophy.

    With Arch, packages are generally vanilla unless there is a significant reason to backport fixes or patch something. You don't have to be afraid of a moron package maintainer modifying source code for no reason.

    So yeah, let dungeon use this trash distro if he likes. I prefer Arch's way, even if glibc is 5 years old.

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  • andrebrait
    replied
    Originally posted by dungeon View Post

    Finally someone to figure out what i am talking about Exactly, there isn't . As you can't roll all software without consequences. As if you need to stop on some points and to decide when you are happy enough to push something that is already released upstream, that means how you basically don't roll releases thus you don't rolling releases...

    So, pure marketing And on these marketing terminologies i like to laugh hard, as that is by definition opposite of truth

    Just don't try to explain me what else is that, like these ubunteros also say how ubuntu have different meanings and even different aspects And on that point i don't care and start laughing, as that is all pure marketing trap believe me
    K then

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  • dungeon
    replied
    Originally posted by andrebrait View Post
    By your definition, there are no true rolling release distros ou there.
    Finally someone to figure out what i am talking about Exactly, there isn't . As you can't roll all software without consequences. As if you need to stop on some points and to decide when you are happy enough to push something that is already released upstream, that means how you basically don't roll releases thus you don't rolling releases...

    So, pure marketing And on these marketing terminologies i like to laugh hard, as that is by definition opposite of truth

    Rolling release doesn't mean mindlessly pushing updates with no testing or whatever is that you think it means.
    Just don't try to explain me what else is that, like these ubunteros also say how ubuntu have different meanings and even different aspects And on that point i don't care and start laughing, as that is all pure marketing trap believe me
    Last edited by dungeon; 22 April 2018, 08:48 AM.

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  • andrebrait
    replied
    Originally posted by dungeon View Post

    Cool, so just push to your users glibc on release date to prove that you are real rolling release (to do that you need to checking it out much earlier) You can't and that is mine angle.
    I fail to see how this would make any distro a "real rolling release" or whatever you mean by that, but...

    Rolling release doesn't mean mindlessly pushing updates with no testing or whatever is that you think it means. If the Arch devs didn't have the time to test it and make sure it was ok, pushing it wouldn't be "real rolling release" stuff but uncautious and possibly dangerous.

    By your definition, there are no true rolling release distros ou there.
    Last edited by andrebrait; 22 April 2018, 07:46 AM.

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  • Aleksei
    replied
    My 2 cents regarding whole Arch vs Sid thing (or is it dungeon vs everyone?): using Arch for several years daily, with X11, virtualization, games etc. Can't remember any breakage from upgrading packages. I always paid attention to the upgrade warnings on Arch's main page though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hi-Angel
    replied
    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    You do realize that practically everything a computer does is math, right? That's kind of where the name comes from. I understand it may not seem that way, but at the hardware level, math and logic are all a computer knows. Most games are heavily dependent upon trigonometry functions (albeit, you can in some cases make 2D games without using trig). When it comes to game AI, almost everything to the computer is just numbers anyway. A lot of math is involved in order to get AI to figure out it's next move.

    EDIT:
    I'm not suggesting these optimizations will improve game performance (in fact, I figure it wouldn't if the game supplies its own glibc). But, I think we might see a few FPS gained in some games.
    Thanks, I can speculate for myself as well, e.g. that all trigonometry can be worked out with shaders, and physics could be done with OpenCL, so log/sin/cos of glibc would never even get called.

    I'd like instead to see some real world examples that should for one reason or another improve.

    Leave a comment:


  • schmidtbag
    replied
    Originally posted by Hi-Angel View Post
    I am sorry for being blatantly offtopic now, but wondering, aren't glibc-2.27 optimizations only affect apps relying heavily on math? E.g. log, sin, cos, etc; I doubt these even used in games very often. Unlike the glibc-2.26 release with its per-thread cache.
    You do realize that practically everything a computer does is math, right? That's kind of where the name comes from. I understand it may not seem that way, but at the hardware level, math and logic are all a computer knows. Most games are heavily dependent upon trigonometry functions (albeit, you can in some cases make 2D games without using trig). When it comes to game AI, almost everything to the computer is just numbers anyway. A lot of math is involved in order to get AI to figure out it's next move.

    EDIT:
    I'm not suggesting these optimizations will improve game performance (in fact, I figure it wouldn't if the game supplies its own glibc). But, I think we might see a few FPS gained in some games.
    Last edited by schmidtbag; 21 April 2018, 09:02 AM.

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  • Hi-Angel
    replied
    I am sorry for being blatantly offtopic now, but wondering, aren't glibc-2.27 optimizations only affect apps relying heavily on math? E.g. log, sin, cos, etc; I doubt these even used in games very often. Unlike the glibc-2.26 release with its per-thread cache.

    Leave a comment:


  • Murple
    replied
    I have to say, dungeon, you are coming across as a bit of an arse. FYI, using lots of smiling emojis is actually compounding that problem rather than masking it.

    It goes without saying - use a distro that matches your desires and ability. Obviously if you want to 'plug and play' and not be involved in maintaining a system, go with a suitable distro. But in regards to your contrived Sid vs Arch bullcrap - take it somewhere else. I don't give two monkeys what distro you use (you are, presumably, an adult afterall who can make your own decisions) and you should not care about other peoples choices. Perhaps people will make choices based on their own experience, preferences and circumstances.

    If I didn't know any better I would say you were somehow threatened by Arch. Are you doubting your own decisions in life? You shouldn't. I'm sure you use what is best for you.

    Leave a comment:


  • dungeon
    replied
    Originally posted by andrebrait View Post

    Yes, I misunderstood lol
    Sorry about that

    But yeah. Arch and Debian are completely different. I was just coming from an angle that even if they were the same, the unstable repo on Debian is not directed towards the end-users whereas Arch's stable is. That's all.
    Cool, so just push to your users glibc on release date to prove that you are real rolling release (to do that you need to checking it out much earlier) You can't and that is mine angle.

    As always Debian will unmask glibc 2.27, gcc8, etc... and anything else next year when it release Buster and all that is because of many many reasons that we call release critical bugs or RC-buggy

    Those uninterested in development, testing and pletora of possible bugs fighting which are all second names for rolling, should simply wait for that.

    Otherwise it is pick your poison, Debian Sid is also for end-users who know all this as if you knows it - it won't break Rolling is simply kind of subjective thing and depends on how much one is ready to ignore.
    Last edited by dungeon; 21 April 2018, 01:57 AM.

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