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Is Fedora's KDE Spin Too Bloated?

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  • #41
    Originally posted by ssokolow View Post

    In fact, that's the big reason that so little is shared between the two. GNOME refuses to use KDE components for various reasons (eg. "C++ with a C binding offered is still too much C++" was one actual reason I remember reading about back in the GNOME2/KDE3 days) while KDE dismisses the idea of throwing out what they already have because the GNOME alternative is inferior in some way (eg. documentation, features KDE needs, stability, etc.) and nobody is volunteering to bring it up to parity.
    That's true, I recall early in The day back when I met several GNOME developers their dismissive attitude to C++. I was hoping they would grow up, but GNOME kept it's stubborn insistence of no C++. while we now have some C++ bindings like the 'mm' ones GNOME poisoned cross desktop collaboration long ago I don't see hope for GNOME ever collaborating effectively with KDE.

    ​For me, that attitude coupled by dismissive, elitists on IRC long ago killed my initial interest in GNOME and GTK development use. The irony is that kind of behavior would violate GNOMEs own Code of Conduct these days...

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    • #42
      Originally posted by gbcox View Post
      Bizarre how a post about KDE defaults gets spun into a discussion about GNOME.

      In any event the original post missed the point of defaults.... which is to provide as complete environment as possible out of the box. Since this is a KDE spin, we should be providing as complete of a KDE environment as possible. Users shouldn't be required to go on a treasure hunt to seek out available KDE applications. If you don't want to use a KDE default you can easily either go into settings and change the defaults or simply remove the packages you don't want. It's not that hard. The bottom line for every person who doesn't want package A, B, C - there will be someone who does.
      The point of this discussion hasn't even been made, thanks in part to Michael sensationalizing and certain trolls that shall remain unnamed.
      Fedora KDE packing more than some think is useful is only an issue if you can't remove extra packages because of dependencies. But considering most of the recent KDE was aimed squarely at modularizing frameworks, I think that's not the case. Nobody bothered to check, though.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by spstarr View Post
        ​For me, that attitude coupled by dismissive, elitists on IRC long ago killed my initial interest in GNOME and GTK development use. The irony is that kind of behavior would violate GNOMEs own Code of Conduct these days...
        Maybe that is part of the reason why GNOME has Code of Conduct now.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by bug77 View Post

          The point of this discussion hasn't even been made, thanks in part to Michael sensationalizing and certain trolls that shall remain unnamed.
          Fedora KDE packing more than some think is useful is only an issue if you can't remove extra packages because of dependencies. But considering most of the recent KDE was aimed squarely at modularizing frameworks, I think that's not the case. Nobody bothered to check, though.
          Yep, you're absolutely correct. Some people can't grasp the concept of defaults. If it's a KDE spin you should expect KDE applications. No one is forcing you to use them.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by Tomin View Post

            Maybe that is part of the reason why GNOME has Code of Conduct now.
            It helps, even if I hate Code of Conducts myself - when abused -

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            • #46
              I can't speak as to whether or not Fedora KDE is bloated, but from my own personal experience with Kubuntu, I can tell you that KDE has a lot of broken and outdated software in it's portfolio, installed by default. That is definitely a problem and it contributes to bloated installs, especially if you go with the installation of the big ole KDE Applications package during the install. Is that still a thing? I don't know if it is, cause I moved to MATE a while back.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by GhostOfFunkS View Post
                Can we drop the psychology analysis and get back to the software? Thanks.

                So how is it justified to keep two stacks when there is only the need for one? What we got today is a test case explosion that hurt both stacks.
                I thought it might help your growth towards adulthood. Speak to Gnome and ask them why they unnecessarily duplicated stacks as they are the "johnny come lately"

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by carewolf View Post
                  Or someone needs to fix the KDE startup. It has become noticably slower. I think it is simply blocking the screen until all services has reported back to have started. It could probably stop blocking the desktop long before, because when it restores browsers on youtube, I can hear they have already launched and are playing videos several seconds before the splash screen lets me see anything.

                  Edit: And probably at least one of those services is also broken as it shouldn't take that long anyway.
                  Yea, that was already planned a long time ago: the point is to abolish the hacky startkde script and replace it with systemd --user units. Unfortunately, the progress on that seems to have stagnated: https://cgit.kde.org/plasma-systemd-integration.git/

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by TheLexMachine View Post
                    I can't speak as to whether or not Fedora KDE is bloated, but from my own personal experience with Kubuntu, I can tell you that KDE has a lot of broken and outdated software in it's portfolio, installed by default. That is definitely a problem and it contributes to bloated installs, especially if you go with the installation of the big ole KDE Applications package during the install. Is that still a thing? I don't know if it is, cause I moved to MATE a while back.
                    I don't know about broken software, but outdated you should expect if you stick with Ubuntu (and family). Ubuntu is not even trying to be cutting edge, they're trying to be stable and traditionally do not ship with the latest of pretty much anything.
                    Kubuntu's problem lately was that staying 2-3 versions behind KDE meant staying with many unfixed bugs. This has improved since Neon (I think Kubuntu somehow leverages Neon's work), but Kubuntu still sits on an older Qt. Meanwhile Neon sticks with Ubuntu LTS, so no newer kernel. Take your pick

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by GhostOfFunkS View Post
                      80% of downloads is proper Fedora Workstation. That pretty much sums up how people go with The Standard Desktop.

                      Fedora kde is a minority of a minority.
                      You win the award for non sequitur of the day. BTW, what is the source of your data. AFAIK Fedora has no such metrics - and even if they did it wouldn't be accurate to correlate Workstation downloads to DE usage. There is no Fedora KDE Workstation download - Workstation is GNOME only - and what many people do is install their DE after the fact or have anaconda do it. Also, it doesn't account for upgrades.

                      It would be nice if there was somehow a metric based upon hits to the repository for a particular package, but I'm not aware of one - but even if there was one that would also not be accurate due to the way Fedora bundles GNOME into just about everything. Due to requisites it's a PITA to remove GNOME once it is installed. Myself I have GNOME installed along with KDE because in Fedora that's the path of least resistance. I just don't use it - but a metric would claim it was installed and being continuously upgraded. I suppose you could subtract the number of other DEs from the total GNOME number - making the assumption that in Fedora GNOME is always installed, no matter what - since most people don't have the wherewithal to delete it.

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