KWin Now Requires C++14; Perhaps More Of KDE Will Make Use Of Newer C++?

[Razmattaz]

I am very glad that C++14 is getting more established in KDE. I am currently spending a fair amount of time learning Rust and really think there are quite a few things they get right over C++. Rust is also a relatively complex language and struggling with ownership, borrows and mutability is a common occurence for a newbie to the language. Does anyone know if any KDE Plasma applications makes use of Rust?

[xnor]

popular languages get bitched about, not really news.

But C++ isn't even that popular. Popularity has been on a constant decline year after year since at least 2000.
And the reason for that is simple: it's a mess.

bitman, I don't see how it's a "pretty good language". It was already horrible pre 0x and opportunities to clean up the mess were not used to do so, but to add to the mess.

[xnor]

Because when you dump $100,000 into a project you want it done in a laungage where if you need new human resources it'll be easier to find over XYZ H4X0R Language 2017

When you dump $100,000 into a project developed in C++ then you won't get very far at all, LOL. And that's just fraction of what it will cost you to maintain the mess that will be the result ...

But hey, in your dream world you probably have access to the most l33t haxx0r c++ pr0gramm3rs that only produce highest-quality code without bugs and don't mind being horribly underpaid.

[konserw]

But C++ isn't even that popular. Popularity has been on a constant decline year after year since at least 2000.
And the reason for that is simple: it's a mess.

Have you got anything to support that? from first thing in google I can see that C++ is 3rd most popular language in the world - https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ And from what I can see there it's decline is more due to rising popularity of .NET (VB and C#) and interpreted languages like PHP, Python and JavaScript

[cj.wijtmans]

Love the salt from C++ haters because they cant understand it. Simple minded folks.

[xnor]

Have you got anything to support that? from first thing in google I can see that C++ is 3rd most popular language in the world - https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

Please see how the link you post supports my statement. Even more shockingly, since 2005 it was about as popular as Object Pascal and since 2012 it's not much more popular than C#.
Give it a few more years and it will be even below JavaScript.

And from what I can see there it's decline is more due to rising popularity of .NET (VB and C#) and interpreted languages like PHP, Python and JavaScript

Well, that's what decline in popularity is.

Love the salt from C++ haters because they cant understand it. Simple minded folks.

In your simple-minded world maybe. What I said is exactly due to the reason because I have learned and used C++ over the years. It _is_ a mess. Heck, even members on the standards committee have made such comments. Just visit a cppcon...

[mastermind]

@xnor: c++ (as a systems languge) is much like democracy: it's the worst language ever, except for all the others.

A common misconception (lie) about both of them.

[mastermind]

A small project like this seems like the perfect target for rust/golang :P

Golang should be killed with fire along with C/C++. Almost the only reason this mess-generating crap became so widespread is that it is pushed by a large and influential corporation.
* https://github.com/ksimka/go-is-not-good
* http://blog.llvm.org/2011/05/what-ev...ould-know.html

A programming language is a tool which should nab you into the direction of construction of more or less "properly" designed code, in other words, It should help you to manage complexity. By using C, C++, golang and the likes you slowly (at first) drown yourself and the universe in an exponentially exploding ball of shit.

Rust does the job reasonably well. And proper strictly-typed pure functional languages do it a lot better still.

[boxie]

Golang should be killed with fire along with C/C++. Almost the only reason this mess-generating crap became so widespread is that it is pushed by a large and influential corporation.
* https://github.com/ksimka/go-is-not-good
* http://blog.llvm.org/2011/05/what-ev...ould-know.html

A programming language is a tool which should nab you into the direction of construction of more or less "properly" designed code, in other words, It should help you to manage complexity. By using C, C++, golang and the likes you slowly (at first) drown yourself and the universe in an exponentially exploding ball of shit.

Rust does the job reasonably well. And proper strictly-typed pure functional languages do it a lot better still.

I take it you have never *actually* used golang then. It's entire purpose in life is to be easy to learn (can be productive in < 1 week) and easy to maintain large projects. It largely hits both of these targets.

when you get right down to it, every language has trade offs (there is no perfect language) - Rusts main tradeoff is that it has more complex syntax and therefore more complex to learn, that complexity gives rise to better memory guarantees without the need for GC. Golang has (now) a quite awesome GC and much easier to learn syntax.

Both are good languages in their own rights.

As for language design, I will let those that have created successful languages debate the merits of each. I think you will find that they all respect each other and could probably talk about it for days on end and still be civil at the end of it.

[xnor]

Golang has (now) a quite awesome GC and much easier to learn syntax.

Awesome for toy applications that don't need high throughput. Golang forces a GC on you that is designed for low latency.
Just allocate a lot of nodes of a linked list or tree and your application will spend most time inside Go's "awesome GC" and slow down your application at the same time. So it will eat a lot of CPU cycles to do work other than the actual work and the application will be many times slower than even a simpler dotnet or Java implementation, for example.

Of course that doesn't mean you cannot throw much more powerful hardware than needed at such a problem. That's the simplest thing to do, right?

It's entire purpose in life is to be easy to learn (can be productive in < 1 week) and easy to maintain large projects. It largely hits both of these targets.

The first part, yes, it is a really simple language but for what it does it could be simpler and more powerful.
On the latter part, hell no. There is no function overloading, no generics .. heck, there's not even const structs. Const is just limited to integral types. But not because it's simpler for developers but because it's simpler to implement the language that way. That is the common excuse.
And "error handling" is just a nightmare.

It's just such a limited language, and some of the limitations don't even make sense. They've designed a language where usability was sacrificed for simplicity, though not for the developer that uses the language but for the developers of the compiler/language.