PulseAudio 10.0 Officially Released

[gilboa]

Yes, he was only involved in PulseAudio when it was a buggy mess. Pointing out that he isn't involved with PulseAudio when it's actually working properly isn't exactly going to help his case.

As someone that has been 'playing' with Linux since 95' and using it both @work and @home since, ahm, 02 (?) I pretty much ready to crown Lennart as my alternate demigod (following Linus).
Sure it was a huge blast (...) having to write per-application-OSS-configuration just to get 2.0 / 2.1 / 4.1 / 5.1 working in games.
Nearly as much as I 'fun' as it was having to write huge piles of scripts just to get custom SysV services up and running.

... After 22+ years, you'll have prey systemd and PA out of my cold dead hands.

- Gilboa

[L_A_G]

Sure it was a huge blast (...) having to write per-application-OSS-configuration just to get 2.0 / 2.1 / 4.1 / 5.1 working in games.

Still doesn't excuse the fact that it took years and years of turd polishing and for Lennart to leave before it became usable.

If SystemD continues on it's present course you're more probable to be cursing about it 22 years down the line the same way Windows users curse about Windows ME. For everyone's sake I do hope they eventually kick Lennart off the project and start drastically trimming out the feature creep.

[gilboa]

Still doesn't excuse the fact that it took years and years of turd polishing and for Lennart to leave before it became usable.

If SystemD continues on it's present course you're more probable to be cursing about it 22 years down the line the same way Windows users curse about Windows ME. For everyone's sake I do hope they eventually kick Lennart off the project and start drastically trimming out the feature creep.

Your posts completely lack any type of self awareness.

You *assume* that your personal experience with PA (unstable, turn polishing) under some random distribution is commonly shared.
You *assume* that your views about systemd (unstable, feature creep) under some random distributions is commonly shared.
You'll be hard pressed to provide any type of objective evidence to support any of your previous claims.
Far worse, you claim to know how I feel and what I do.

I, on the other hand, am well aware of fact that I have zero idea what happens outside my 100+ laptops/workstations/server Fedora based network and as such, I can only talk about my *own* personal experience. (That most likely a tab wider than your).

- Gilboa

[ldo17]

Still doesn't excuse the fact that it took years and years of turd polishing ...

Story of *nix in a nutshell.

[L_A_G]

You *assume* that your personal experience with PA (unstable, turn polishing) under some random distribution is commonly shared.

Nope, nothing of this is based on personal experience. It's all based on listening to what people at large have to say as personal anecdotes are not a valid form of evidence.

You *assume* that your views about systemd (unstable, feature creep) under some random distributions is commonly shared.

Once again, it's not based on personal experiences, it's based on hearing what Linux users at large have to say about about it.

You'll be hard pressed to provide any type of objective evidence to support any of your previous claims.

It's a bit ironic for you to demand that I should find objective evidence when all you've brought to the table so far have been personal anecdotes.

Far worse, you claim to know how I feel and what I do.

Nope, I said what I think you will feel if things continue the way they are in SystemD development. There's a big difference between the two things.

I, on the other hand, am well aware of fact that I have zero idea what happens outside [personal anecdotes], I can only talk about my *own* personal experience. (That most likely a tab wider than your).

When you say that you don't listen at all to what other people using PulseAudio are telling about their experiences with it and are merely basing your views on your own personal anecdotes you're not exactly making all that convincing of a case. As I said, my personal anecdotes in this matter are not what I'm basing this on as personal anecdotes do not constitute a proper argument. Instead I've kept my ears open and listened to what Linux users at large have been saying for years. Hell, I haven't even had any serious problems with PulseAudio personally so your assumption that I'm basing this merely on personal anecdotes is simply laughable.

Your posts completely lack any type of self awareness.

Now look who's talking...

[unixfan2001]

it's based on hearing what Linux users at large have to say about about it.

Linux users at large != The five random neckbeards you seem to know

Most GNU/Linux users don't give a shit about Pulse or systemd, one way or the other.
They don't care about "init freedom" or "sound server freedom". They don't tinker with a working config every single day. They're just glad their system works.

[L_A_G]

Linux users at large != The five random neckbeards you seem to know

I've got a much bigger sampling than a few friends so you're about as much off the mark as that other PulseAudio defender.

Most GNU/Linux users don't give a shit about Pulse or systemd, one way or the other.
They don't care about "init freedom" or "sound server freedom". They don't tinker with a working config every single day. They're just glad their system works.

The problem with PulseAudio was that it didn't work back when Lennart was still in charge. SystemD still works, but anyone with any knowledge or experience of large scale software development will be able to tell that it's headed for disaster if it follows it's present course.

[gilboa]

Nope, nothing of this is based on personal experience. It's all based on listening to what people at large have to say as personal anecdotes are not a valid form of evidence.
...
Once again, it's not based on personal experiences, it's based on hearing what Linux users at large have to say about about it.
...
It's a bit ironic for you to demand that I should find objective evidence when all you've brought to the table so far have been personal anecdotes.
...
Nope, I said what I think you will feel if things continue the way they are in SystemD development. There's a big difference between the two things.
...
When you say that you don't listen at all to what other people using PulseAudio are telling about their experiences with it and are merely basing your views on your own personal anecdotes you're not exactly making all that convincing of a case. As I said, my personal anecdotes in this matter are not what I'm basing this on as personal anecdotes do not constitute a proper argument. Instead I've kept my ears open and listened to what Linux users at large have been saying for years. Hell, I haven't even had any serious problems with PulseAudio personally so your assumption that I'm basing this merely on personal anecdotes is simply laughable.
...
Now look who's talking...

I could continue wasting time on this futile childish argument - but I won't. I'll save us both a lot of valuable time.

1. You claim that your views are based on 'listening' to Linux users (what-ever that mean). Please post actual numbers to back your claim (that PA was turd).
P.S. I'd start with number of valid bug reports per time period and million users compared to other major releases, such as Linux 2.6, KDE 4/5, GNOME 3, etc.

2. Assuming that you don't have valid numbers, how many Linux machines does your business include? How many of them had systemd/PA issues?

3. Please note that if you fail to supply any type of valid statistical information to backup your claim and if the number of active Linux machines under your control is below 100, I would be forced to assume that you are yet-another-mindless troll.

- Gilboa

[gilboa]

The problem with PulseAudio was that it didn't work back when Lennart was still in charge. SystemD still works, but anyone with any knowledge or experience of large scale software development will be able to tell that it's headed for disaster if it follows it's present course.

Care to share that 'experience' with large scale software development?

- Gilboa

[L_A_G]

...

I love how you start demanding that I need to find or start compiling a really comprehensive list of statistics to counter your personal anecdotes. Maybe mr old fart thinks a wee bit too much of himself? In case you might not have realized it, I don't know you so I have zero reason to respect you in the slightest.

Needless to say I've kept my ears open on forums, mailing lists and comments sections to various news sites to have a good picture of how well PulseAudio worked back when Lennart ran the project. Hell, Lennart himself admits that it was really buggy and didn't work properly when distros like Ubuntu started adopting it. I'd say Lennart himself is a bit more of an authority on how well PulseAudio worked in the early days than some random internet wise guy.

Care to share that 'experience' with large scale software development?

Do you have dyslexia or something because the post specifically wrote down "knowledge or experience" or are you just trying to use a straw man fallacy? Feature creep is a well known example of bad software development methodology and you don't even need to have an academic background to understand how bad unnecessary complexity can be.