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Wine 2.0 Coming In December~January: DirectX 11 Support Ongoing, No Android Support

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  • #11
    I keep an active subscription for CrossOver to show my support to CodeWeavers, but I've never actually used it since I've always found compatibility to be much worse than the latest Wine development releases. It seems that CrossOver is only there for people that don't know much about computers and just want to try something just by clicking a few buttons.

    Contrast this with most GNU/Linux users, who (in my experience at least) are far more likely to know a thing or two about computers, and are happy to build the software or troubleshoot an issue themselves (or look to community to help such as is largely the case with PlayOnLinux). I'm not surprised OS X users are more likely to purchase a subscription by comparison.

    Like Vash63, I also agree with the decline in GNU/Linux sales are a result of having far more GNU/Linux games available natively (you've got GamingOnLinux and the like proclaiming people shouldn't buy modern games to play under Wine - they seem to care a lot about Steam stats), and the lack of DirectX 11. Just a few years ago, DirectX 9-only support was perfectly acceptable, and Wine does a darn good job there. I remember purchasing Dead Island Riptide (a 2013 title) on launch day with confidence Wine would satisfy the game requirements, and I was right. However these days almost any AAA title requires DirectX 11, and that's almost always a complete miss on Wine. There are so many known issues with DirectX 11, I don't even bother to report how games are working to the Wine AppDB and Bugzilla because there's really no point. Occasionally you'll get a game like Grim Dawn which supports DirectX 9, but that's really the exception rather than the rule these days.

    I also question just how good the performance of DirectX 11 would be. I only find DirectX 9 performance satisfying these days with the Gallium on Nine patches, and Wine (and certainly CrossOver) have no official support for it. I think CodeWeavers are doing their GNU/Linux customers a significant disservice by not incorporating the Gallium on Nine patch set for use when the environment supports it. It feels the patches are held back because they are incompatible with OS X, so that's another reason I could see GNU/Linux users perhaps not feeling a strong urge to support CodeWeavers as of late.

    Finally, there's Denuvo. Doom (2016) should have been a massive win for Wine this year since Id Software are probably the biggest AAA developer to use OpenGL instead of DirectX, yet have shown no interest in GNU/Linux. The early betas of the game showed much promise, but when the game was released it refused to run due to the Denuvo copy protection. It's not clear games with this copy protection will ever work, although I see on bug reports that people are actively investigating it. Games with Denuvo don't advertise they have it, so even a perfect DirectX 11 implementation would have Wine continue to be a hit or miss, which really sucks.

    But I'm sure of one thing - the lack of DirectX 11 support must be the biggest thing that's hurting them right now. Fortunately it's something within their power to do something about, if they can just give it the focus it needs.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by peppercats View Post

      A lot of games still use DX9.
      Off the top of my head, Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen came out earlier this year.
      Guild Wars 2 and Path of Exile are my go-to games and they both use DX9 still (along with working mostly alright under Wine). PoE as of lately has an experimental DX11 renderer though which is kind of a questionable decision (I'm guessing development for it just took a while, but kind of strange they didn't go for OGL, Vulkan, or even DX12 at this point if they really wanted another renderer).

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      • #13
        Originally posted by Vash63 View Post
        I wonder if their declining Linux sales are related to the increase in native games. That plus them not having DX11 support means there isn't a whole lot of reason to use WINE anymore as a Linux gamer.
        40% Of all steam games were released this year. Most of them with linux support. So that's perfectly possible.
        2016 has been a hellscape. Everywhere. Even for those managing online video game marketplaces.

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        • #14
          I hope CodeWeavers fill find a way to survive because without them Wine will either die completely or its development will slow down tenfold.

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          • #15
            why is this forum such a cesspool of negativity

            codeweavers do a magnificent job, and i hope they continue to find a good revenue stream from porting work. losing them would be a catastrofical loss for us all.

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            • #16
              on my r9 290 csgo native 155fps, csgo wine gallium9 215fps, windows 235fps. Wine+g9 is the only decent way to play opengl games on linux with amd. Although kvm windows is probably still better but can't test that because intel didn't put vt-d on the 4770k.

              Wine news are always about dx11 support, but I think full .NET support in both 32bit and 64bit is much more important.
              Wine runs a lot of games, but like 90% of games requiring a third party anti-cheat service fail miserably, this is also something that could be more important than dx10/11 support.

              How many games that use dx10/11 don't also have dx9 support? Also, tbh from a mundane point of view, the best thing dx10 added was better looking water surfaces, wow. And all they did with dx11 tessellation was better hairs, again wow.

              I am hoping to switch to zen+vega, and they better have damn vt-d, and vega cards better not have any issues with passthrough.

              Overall I find the whole thing about wine prefixes is a mess to deal with, and I find it silly and also time consuming to have multiple installations of the same freaking dependencies over and over, granted you can use one prefix for everything, but when a bug is gonna bite you, it will be much easier to pop a new prefix. I suppose software like pol or crossover deal with prefixes, dll overrides, registry keys , however the setup seems always cumbersome, deploying environments should probably be faster than scripting setups execs...overlayfs?

              In the end you can have 3 steam installations on linux (native,32w,64w) wasting multiple gigs of space and yet not being able to run all the games, letting aside the performance hit of course.

              Runnig software on wine is like opening a surprise egg, will it run? will it break? will it mess with me? How will it look? lets find out.

              Comment


              • #17
                Originally posted by blae View Post
                why is this forum such a cesspool of negativity

                codeweavers do a magnificent job, and i hope they continue to find a good revenue stream from porting work. losing them would be a catastrofical loss for us all.
                Codeweavers is what's holding back Wine. Remember this is an open source project, where people can donate code, but people are reluctant to do so because Wine is like the beta testing for CrossOver. So any code you donate to Wine, will end up for sale with CrossOver. Look at the fiasco with Gallium-Nine where the code works and is ready to be implemented into Wine, but neither Wine nor Wine-Staging want it. So you can't even give them code, because it doesn't help their business, which as it's pointed out 90% are on Mac.

                Meanwhile to collect on the ever expanding Android market, they've put a lot of focus on the Android port. That PlayStore money must look really sexy. Yet DX11 and a good number of applications are still not compatible. To make matters worse there's a number of spin offs of Wine to deal with this catastrophic software. You have Wine-Staging, which is in my opinion the official working Wine. You have Sarnex's Wine, cause some reason nobody wants to implement Gallium-Nine. You have Play-On-Linux, which solves a lot of the issues you have when dealing with Wine, though not perfectly. Many more versions of Wine, cause Wine fails.

                I for one think that Valve should make their own Windows compatibility layer cause they do have experience with Windows and Linux. It would benefit them greatly cause some developers will simply never port their games over to Linux. Less games working on Linux means less people using Linux, and even less games ported to Linux. We can't rely on Wine anymore for this. How many years will it take for DX12?

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                • #18
                  you're mad if you think having company backing somehow makes wine worse

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by shmerl View Post

                    The Witcher 3 still doesn't work.
                    buy the game when it comes to linux, simple

                    Comment


                    • #20
                      Originally posted by untore View Post
                      on my r9 290 csgo native 155fps, csgo wine gallium9 215fps, windows 235fps. Wine+g9 is the only decent way to play opengl games on linux with amd. Although kvm windows is probably still better but can't test that because intel didn't put vt-d on the 4770k.

                      Wine news are always about dx11 support, but I think full .NET support in both 32bit and 64bit is much more important.
                      Wine runs a lot of games, but like 90% of games requiring a third party anti-cheat service fail miserably, this is also something that could be more important than dx10/11 support.

                      How many games that use dx10/11 don't also have dx9 support? Also, tbh from a mundane point of view, the best thing dx10 added was better looking water surfaces, wow. And all they did with dx11 tessellation was better hairs, again wow.

                      I am hoping to switch to zen+vega, and they better have damn vt-d, and vega cards better not have any issues with passthrough.

                      Overall I find the whole thing about wine prefixes is a mess to deal with, and I find it silly and also time consuming to have multiple installations of the same freaking dependencies over and over, granted you can use one prefix for everything, but when a bug is gonna bite you, it will be much easier to pop a new prefix. I suppose software like pol or crossover deal with prefixes, dll overrides, registry keys , however the setup seems always cumbersome, deploying environments should probably be faster than scripting setups execs...overlayfs?

                      In the end you can have 3 steam installations on linux (native,32w,64w) wasting multiple gigs of space and yet not being able to run all the games, letting aside the performance hit of course.

                      Runnig software on wine is like opening a surprise egg, will it run? will it break? will it mess with me? How will it look? lets find out.
                      make a reclamation to AMD driver devs

                      Comment

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