Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

POWER8 Workstation Launches On Crowdfunding: $4k For Motherboard, $18k For System

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    It'd be nice, but what an absolutely ridiculous price.

    If I want some Linux/ppc64 action, this quad core Power Mac G5 suffices. If I close my eyes I can pretend it's an IntelliStation POWER 185.

    Best of all it was free, save for a $10 video card.

    Comment


    • #42
      POWER8, 8 threads per core.

      Great for apps that can take advantage of the threading, (DB2 on AIX).

      We proposed a major POWER8 buildout using RedHat 7.x since AIX was being phased out. We were being forced into Xeons, but found we needed almost twice as many Intel cores as POWER cores due to the limited thread processing on Xeon. This made the software licensing costs go through the roof. The project died.

      FWIW: OpenCAPI was announced 4 days ago and POWER9 is going to licensed out to several firms for build in 2017. So I think Talos might get smoked next year when cheaper POWER9 SMT4 and SMT8 "SO" models come out about the time they maybe get their funding.

      And your tax dollars at work, IBM and NVidia have been contracted by the Department of Energy to develop 2 new supercomputers using POWER9 SU and NVidia Volta GPU's.

      Comment


      • #43
        [QUOTE=edwaleni;n905422]POWER8, 8 threads per core.

        Great for apps that can take advantage of the threading, (DB2 on AIX).

        Originally posted by edwaleni View Post
        We proposed a major POWER8 buildout using RedHat 7.x since AIX was being phased out. We were being forced into Xeons, but found we needed almost twice as many Intel cores as POWER cores due to the limited thread processing on Xeon. This made the software licensing costs go through the roof. The project died.
        I've heard similar accounts from co-workers. They switched from low-end POWER to high-end Xeons at the same price for wider software support running very common, popular and well optimized databases and saw significant performance issues with the Xeons. They had some success changing the workloads and optimizing their code but they eventually had to switch back.

        Originally posted by edwaleni View Post
        FWIW: OpenCAPI was announced 4 days ago and POWER9 is going to licensed out to several firms for build in 2017. So I think Talos might get smoked next year when cheaper POWER9 SMT4 and SMT8 "SO" models come out about the time they maybe get their funding.
        There's always something better just around the corner. When POWER9 comes out, Intel will a better product a year away. When that comes out, it will be AMD... It's been like that since the later 90s.

        Originally posted by edwaleni View Post
        And your tax dollars at work, IBM and NVidia have been contracted by the Department of Energy to develop 2 new supercomputers using POWER9 SU and NVidia Volta GPU's.
        That's good news. But similarly, AMD can claim they're leveraging XBOX and PlayStation.

        Overall, it's all about your budget for your current planned purchase. If you had a high-end Xeon in mind for a linux workstation \ server, now you have a similarly or slightly more expensive option to consider with better performance and libre hardware.

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by c117152 View Post
          There's always something better just around the corner. When POWER9 comes out, Intel will a better product a year away. When that comes out, it will be AMD... It's been like that since the later 90s.
          Which is why development of the product has to be rapid. Which is why it would be best done by IBM itself.


          Comment


          • #45
            [QUOTE=c117152;n905428]
            Originally posted by edwaleni View Post
            I've heard similar accounts from co-workers. They switched from low-end POWER to high-end Xeons at the same price for wider software support running very common, popular and well optimized databases and saw significant performance issues with the Xeons. They had some success changing the workloads and optimizing their code but they eventually had to switch back.
            Well, this data is old. Today's Xeons v4 are much faster than POWER8. Here are some real life benchmarks, and Intel Xeon crush the IBM POWER8. POWER8 is not interesting at all. And besides being much slower, POWER8 can not run crysis.

            Comment


            • #46
              Here is another benchmark. Intel Xeon 2.6GHz scores 583 GFlops, and 3.52GHz IBM POWER8 scores 338 GFlops. Intel Xeon is 72% faster, despite being lower clocked.

              Seriously, why would anyone consider a slow and more expensive IBM POWER8 instead of a cheaper and faster Intel Xeon? O_o

              Comment


              • #47
                Finally some people starting to get it
                While there may be some server workload (many independent tasks in parallel, throughput oriented) where IBM POWER excells (eg db2 (eg on AIX) ;-) ), this platform just does not compete in a price/performance comparison.
                People (actually companies) who need some extras in addition to performance (fault tolerance, security, support) may pay that extra ofc to have a solid platform to base their *business* on.
                So the Talos lacks the graphic performance (no drivers), falls behind in cpu performance (Intel's dev pace much higher than IBM's, not to mention Raptor's pace), and for potential buyers who would be able to afford it Raptor probably lacks the reputation in good longterm support so they can go IBM straight away (and buy server grade hardware for their db2 ;-) ).
                All those points would be of no concern if the Talos was sold at a reasonable consumer price for the enthusiast ofc ;-) So I really wouldn't bet my money on this one
                Once more a disclaimer before I get flamed: I would really like to see an open hard/software system like the Talos to succeed (especially adding an alternative platform to the mix makes it more interesting for me (the enthusiast *g*). But so much seems seriously wrong in this project. It's like they really try hard to fail

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by UbuntuRulez View Post
                  Well, this data is old. Today's Xeons v4 are much faster than POWER8. Here are some real life benchmarks, and Intel Xeon crush the IBM POWER8. POWER8 is not interesting at all. And besides being much slower, POWER8 can not run crysis.
                  http://www.anandtech.com/show/10539/...applications/9
                  That benchmark appears to show midrange POWER beating midrange Xeon (albeit simulated) but in turn being beaten by high end Xeon. The accompanying text emphasizes this point, and that high end POWER chips would show comparably higher performance.

                  The tested high end Xeon was ~3x the price of the tested POWER8.

                  Can't argue with your point about not running Crysis though
                  Last edited by bridgman; 19 October 2016, 12:24 PM.
                  Test signature

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                    That benchmark appears to show midrange POWER beating midrange Xeon (albeit simulated) but in turn being beaten by high end Xeon. The accompanying text emphasizes this point, and that high end POWER chips would show comparably higher performance.
                    There are other benchmarks in that article. And in all benchmarks, POWER8 is slow. I thought POWER8 was a super cpu faster than anything else on the market, but no. It is slower than Intel Xeon, so why be interested in POWER8? You can not run x86 software, so you need to recompile it to POWER8, and when you do, it runs slower.

                    Sure, you write that "high end Xeon beats midrange POWER8" and that a high end POWER8 would show higher performance. In the benchmark text, it says
                    "The POWER8 surprises here with excellent performance: it is able to keep with a 14 core Xeon E5 "Broadwell EP" and beats the midrange Xeon E5-2690 v3 by healthy margin. Remember, this is a midrange POWER8: there are SKUs that reach 3.4-3.8 GHz."
                    So let us look at a high end POWER8, running at 3.8 GHz. It is 31% higher clocked than the mid range POWER8 used in the benchmark. So let us increase the mid range POWER8 score with 31%, then we end up with a score of 5.14. This is still slower than the high end Intel Xeon which reaches 5.33. So even a high end POWER8 that costs very much will be beaten by a high end Intel Xeon. So I dont see the interest in POWER cpus from IBM? They are slower, and more expensive and they dont run x86. I have a bridge I can sell you, for only a million dollars - are you interested in buying that bridge as well? You are fooled by IBM who tries to make you believe POWER is soooo fast. Which is not.


                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by markd View Post
                      Finally some people starting to get it
                      While there may be some server workload (many independent tasks in parallel, throughput oriented) where IBM POWER excells (eg db2 (eg on AIX) ;-) ), this platform just does not compete in a price/performance comparison.
                      POWER is slower in database benchmarks too. I bet AIX on Intel Xeon runs faster than on POWER8, but IBM is afraid to release benchmarks pitting POWER8 vs Intel Xeon.


                      I dont get how normal, sane people allow IBM to trick them? Have not they checked POWER vs Xeon benchmarks before jumping on the hype train? Or, are they paid by IBM to hype POWER8? How many here, have an affiliation with IBM?

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X