POWER8 Workstation Launches On Crowdfunding: $4k For Motherboard, $18k For System

[ssokolow]

and not MANDATORY hardware-backdoor-like firmwares running on the CPU with ring 0 priority.

Ring -3. The management engine's permissions are to your kernel (which runs in Ring 0) as your kernel is to your userland (which runs in Ring 3).

[Luke]

These server boards are an interesting case. The CPU prices are similar to the Xeons it seems, the board is expensive due to small scale production. It was once said that a run of 50 Bic lighters would cost $50 apiece. The security situation is interesting because x86 servers and boards have complicated management engines meant for out of band/below the OS management from a remote location. That is like being able to sit at the console from a remote location, but obviously this capability also applies to attackers. When state-level attackers are an issue, the machine must be networked, and it a server used by others this kind of risk becomes extreme. If Google is serious about locking out the NSA, they should use these procs and buy a huge run of the boards.

For the rest of use that do not have the $5K+ costs associated with anyone's new servers of comparable capability, defenses have to be considered if state-level or other skilled attackers are the issue. For me that means using Linux instead of Windows and keeping those encrypted raw video clips on older AMD boards that do not have modern management engines. If I were stuck with such a board, not using the onboard network card would isolate publicly admitted to management engine capabilities from the network, especially if hardware from an unrelated vendor connected by USB were used. One of the strongest benefits of Linux is actually in the kernel, where the hardware random number generator is XORed with the software RNG rather than mapped to /dev/random. One of the biggest potential backdoors to encrypted systems is that hardware RNG used by itself as in Windows. I've even heard rumors of it being used to export CPU ID's over https hidden in keys to defeat anonymous posting. For firmware to counter these defenses it would have to be updated everytime normal linux kernel churn broke the workaround routines, and it's not that hard to block even forced updates.

I'd love to have one of these machines but the boards are worth more than everything I own. At least the AM2 and AM3+ boards I have predate the worst of the management engine madness. I will never update them to any of that backdoored shit, even if it runs 48 cores at 10GHZ while consuming only 5 watts and sells for $5.


Needless to day, none of this matters a whit if you are on Facebook and happily "add a birthday" when so prompted.

[jacob]

I don't think there is any "right" marketing for this. I really hope they succeed, I want them to succeed.

But the average home user can't budget this much money, even a tech enthusiast. Even among those that could, the number that have the money and a use for something like this is small. Everyone I know with a really expensive home workstation spent the money to build a PC gaming rig.

Businesses aren't going to go for this. If you buy an $18,000 server from Dell or HP or Lenovo you know it's going to work and if any of the hardware fails in the first year you'll get a replacement rapidly. And the chances that Dell, HP, or Lenovo will be out of business when you need new parts is basically zero. This is a tiny project, it doesn't make sense to build a business around it unless your specific processing load is highly optimized for Power8.

Meybe government and military organisations, particularly outside of the US?

[Luke]

I only hope someone at IBM is watching this. A commemorative POWER System/8 or whatever, to commemorate the PC, would be great, and if IBM can help Talos with this, well, it would be a great comeback to the workstation business.

If they don't some bucks-up modder should stuff one of these into a modified case from one of the original circa 1981 PC's. I can just see something that looks exactly like the original PC except for having two removable HD drawers where the floppy drives went and color on the monitor. Those cases were wide and deep-and anything that does not fit could be stuffed into the space vacated by replacing the CRT with an LCD monitor and the monitor fastened to the top of the case where it was so often set up.

BTW, those original PCs were nearly as expensive in constant dollars as the POWER8 system being discussed here.

[Luke]

Earlier post unapproved: For those of us who cannot afford these boards, stockpiling AM3+ or earlier AMD stuff allows a lot of the management engine/backdoor shit to be avoided. Also, if you consider management engines a threat you should not be on Facebook, never "add a birthday" to any online account, etc. I certainly do not.

[schwarzygesetzlos]

For those who don't have the budget for the Talos Secure Workstation - there is the X5000 now shipping. With dual- or quad-core POWER CPU, no Intel management engine, so hopefully good enough for the paranoid amongst us. And really a bargain at just $1,593.50.

[Brane215]

For those who don't have the budget for the Talos Secure Workstation - there is the X5000 now shipping. With dual- or quad-core POWER CPU, no Intel management engine, so hopefully good enough for the paranoid amongst us. And really a bargain at just $1,593.50.

Just as plastic toy Ferrari is as bargain at 1/3 price of the original. e5500 is a toy, compared to Power8.

BTW, this should be done by IBM, not left to 3rd party. They had to have something very similar fo development board, how much would tweaking it to a cool E/ATX motherboard change development costs ? All they would have to do is to open the files, just as they did in prehistory with first PC.

[BwackNinja]

This would be more tempting, but the timing is also bad considering that Google and Rackspace just reminded us yesterday that POWER9 is next and significantly more modern. I wonder how long we'd be waiting for a similar POWER9 EATX board. Probably 2+ years.

https://cloudplatform.googleblog.com/2016/10/introducing-Zaius-Google-and-Rackspaces-open-server-running-IBM-POWER9.html

[Mike Frett]

I'll be honest, IF I had that money to spare I would definitely like to dip my hands into this new system. No doubt about it and I definitely wish these guys the best of luck.

[89c51]

While it is an awesome product its bound to fail. Too expensive for the geek masses, too specific of a usecase, and useless to them that might want to run commercial SW on it. :/