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  • #11
    Originally posted by duby229 View Post
    No that would not be the obvious conclusion
    Yeah, I admitted my mistake. It had to have a more obvious explanation.

    HPUX, AIX, BSD, Solaris, you know the actual unixes, use a SystemV compatible init.
    Hmm, I never really thought about this.
    I think it might be the reason why fervent systemd haters call themselves "veteran unix admins", while most true veteran unix admins aren't terribly upset by stuff going on in linux land.

    What's obvious is you let your fanboyism get the best of you again.
    come on, quit these proxy wars and come out of the closet. I know you like to call yourself "veteran unix admin" too.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
      Yeah, I admitted my mistake. It had to have a more obvious explanation.

      Hmm, I never really thought about this.
      I think it might be the reason why fervent systemd haters call themselves "veteran unix admins", while most true veteran unix admins aren't terribly upset by stuff going on in linux land.

      come on, quit these proxy wars and come out of the closet. I know you like to call yourself "veteran unix admin" too.
      Actually truth be told, I'm not a big fan of the BSD's and Solaris, and I've never had an opportunity to play with the big iron unixes like HPUX and AIX. I've heard other people say that Solaris code can even be called "pretty". But the naming conventions and syntax differences screw me up every single time.

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      • #13
        The roadmap looks silly, with its promise of indefinite XUL support. How many developers do they have on staff?

        At some point, either they'll have to follow in Firefox's stead, or avoid importing at least some new features from each Firefox's release. And the number of those will grow over time.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by hvis View Post
          The roadmap looks silly, with its promise of indefinite XUL support. How many developers do they have on staff?

          At some point, either they'll have to follow in Firefox's stead, or avoid importing at least some new features from each Firefox's release. And the number of those will grow over time.
          The funniest thing is that the Firefox extensions will migrate to the new standard anyway, so they will end up with having to make/maintain their own extensions too.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by hvis View Post
            The roadmap looks silly, with its promise of indefinite XUL support. How many developers do they have on staff?

            At some point, either they'll have to follow in Firefox's stead, or avoid importing at least some new features from each Firefox's release. And the number of those will grow over time.
            Yep, that's the catch. Upstream at Mozilla, they're dropping this stuff because over time, they've found this stuff was too difficulty to maintain, and too prone to security issues. For a small niche project to try and maintain a fork that keeps all the bits that larger projects are deliberately abandoning as unmaintainable? It's difficult to see that succeeding...

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            • #16
              Originally posted by ipsirc View Post
              Newer != worse

              Unfortunately, given the apparent attitudes of some, that needed to be said.

              There are a number of good, technical reasons why mozilla are making these changes, and that post by the palemoon dev (I assume) wasn't exactly accurate.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                HPUX, AIX, BSD, Solaris, you know the actual unixes, use a SystemV compatible init.
                As someone who used BSD and Solaris, they do not use a SysV style init, Solaris used SMF since version 10, although it seems to support SysV style scripts for the sake of backwards compatibility, but the documentation says it's obsolete, at least in Solaris. BSD, I'm not even sure if it ever had a SysV style init system. I think they used to have a monolithic script in /etc/rc, but changed it to be fully modular in NetBSD 1.5, which was eventually used in all the other BSDs, whose init scripts are now located in the directory /etc/rc.d

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by pouar View Post
                  As someone who used BSD and Solaris, they do not use a SysV style init, Solaris used SMF since version 10,
                  Could you go in a bit more detail about SMF? From quick googling it seems to be a binary init with configurations, and is doing things that would be pretty fucking hard to do with scripts alone, much like systemd.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                    the stuff in that forum is so batshit crazy that I'm going to treat Palemoon as malware if I see it in other people's PCs.
                    Sorry, but it is actually Mozilla what became batshit crazy and these guys have a good point. Come on, if they want to look and behave like Chrome/Chromium, the only fate FF deserves is IMMEDIATE DEINSTALL and replacement with Chrome or Chromium. These are technically superior. They have multi-process things here and now. They could separate self to containers in Linux. They beat FF in terms of performance quite a lot here and there. There is NaCl here and now while mozilla is nowhere close to e.g. things like WebAssembly. Google is not in hurry: they hold lion share of the web already and got NaCl to run more demanding things like games at adequate performance levels. No batshit waiting for some obscure half-baked servo stuff (its performance, resource consumption and features are unexciting so far, many years since this craze has started). Crippled addons api already in place, etc. Why wait for Mozilla for all this stuff?! It seems Chrome just better in doing what Mozilla just plans to do and goint to do, buahahaha!!!

                    Granted Mozilla already lost half of their market share and does absolutely anything to annoy users, break their use cases, screw addons they loved, piss off addons devs & ppl around OSS, I guess it wouldn't take long to lose remaining users. Honestly, I've been really sorry for installing FF to non-techies. They've got their use cases fucked up like every third update or so. So Mozilla lost their market share for a damn good reason. Continue with this chrome craze and I would just reinstall 'em Chromium. At least it does not fucks things up each and every update and I'm really fed up with Mozilla breakage and non-realistic plans. I'm sorry to inform Mozilla but they've spread efforts way too much, doing everything from OS to programming languages. The result is pile of smouldering wreck. Who needs third rate software plagued by long-standing problems while lacking any advantage to justify it?!

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                      HPUX, AIX, BSD, Solaris, you know the actual unixes, use a SystemV compatible init.
                      IIRC, AIX and Solaris are rather using stuff more resembling Windows regedit, i.e. binary configuration databases. BSDs tend to have their own idea about inits as well. And sysv init is kinda vague, to degree scripts from one Linux distro aren't going to work in another distro without major overhaul. Which is quite painful since they often mix code and configuration and could be like three pages long. Needless to say, changing working path or something like this when it resides on flipping third page of the file isn't really exciting. Sorry, but systemd just brings us some sanity which some other systems enjoyed for many years. Though obviously proprietary systems tend to use really overengineered solutions. IIRC Solaris SMF does it like this: configuration described in XML but since its slow, it being cached to SQLite DB (Solaris fans should feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). Don't you think XML + SQLite are a bit more bloated compared to mere text configs in systemd?
                      Last edited by SystemCrasher; 21 July 2016, 09:35 PM.

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