KDE Plasma Users Are Still Running Into Multi-Screen Issues

[darclide]

Dafuq? What is that? Where it comes from? How am I supposed to read that?

http://popcon.ubuntu.com/ now that wasn't terribly hard to find, was it? Shows where it is from, what it is, how to read it. Same for Debian. But if you already are unable to cope with a task such as getting there from that URL I'm not sure if it is worth it. ...

Where we see that KDE is at 26%, just a bit less than XFCE. Not seeing a trend here, it's a single data point.

It is, but if you compare it to popularity contests, like the 2015 or 2014 linux magazine polls, it looks very bad.

WHhere we see KDE has a bigger share of other DEs combined once we remove the "workstation" installs that are likely in companies where they use defaults.

Which you just define as "they don't count" so the result is more in your favour. Yeah, of course that works.

The problem with distributions is: they might offer it in addition to other DEs, but see above: the userbase is a lot smaller. And with all major distributions having the other desktops as more popular and no distribution left which uses or pushes KDE as default: it will further and further decline. People use defaults, so when the default always is Gnome or Unity, fewer and fewer people will use KDE. And even on distributions that have no default at all, e.g. Arch Linux, KDE is far from the top.

fixed

So the best you can do is fake quotes and add insults in bold? That's cute. No arguments, no numbers, just insults and personal opinion. Yeah, if that is the best that Plasma has to offer: I see my views very much confirmed.

[Nth_man]

It is, but if you compare it to popularity contests, like the 2015 or 2014 linux magazine polls, it looks very bad.

In 2015:

Anyone can see IDG - ITworld:
"KDE Plasma is the most popular desktop Linux environment"
http://www.itworld.com/article/28811...vironment.html

And Zdnet :
"KDE proved to be the winner here"
http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-bes...us-linux-users

[starshipeleven]

http://popcon.ubuntu.com/ now that wasn't terribly hard to find, was it? Shows where it is from, what it is, how to read it. Same for Debian. But if you already are unable to cope with a task such as getting there from that URL I'm not sure if it is worth it. ...

I know what that is, I asked how in the hell I'm supposed to read that raw data on package popularity to see that kde is sinking.
I could just look for "kde" with browser search but it is a bit nonsense as others said already since older packages are going to skew the statistics by just being older, also not to mention that it isn't exactly a terribly reliable info source.

It is, but if you compare it to popularity contests, like the 2015 or 2014 linux magazine polls, it looks very bad.

So, let's compare apples to bananas then. Different contests (in the sense of magazine polls vs that one you linked) were done on different usebase with different metodology.

Which you just define as "they don't count" so the result is more in your favour. Yeah, of course that works.

installing Gnome because it is the distro default does not count as a choice. They called the installation WORKSTATION for a reason.

but see above: the userbase is a lot smaller.

You have not shown a damn, you just dumped debatably useful raw data and random SINGLE datapoints.

You have some kind of grasp of what a trend is?

And with all major distributions having the other desktops as more popular and no distribution left which uses or pushes KDE as default: it will further and further decline.

XFCE and MATE are on the same boat afaik. Same with LXDE. Not on major distros.

And even on distributions that have no default at all, e.g. Arch Linux, KDE is far from the top.

On Arch you can see how KDE, Gnome and Xfce are all at more or less 30%, assuming that page isn't pulling numbers out of its ass.
Still not a trend, still not proving your claim.

So the best you can do is fake quotes and add insults in bold?

Until you show me some kind of recognizable trend instead of pretending I'm a gullible idiot and dumping random nonsense data that IS NOT A TREND because it does not show a change over fucking time (being single data points taken with different methods), that's the most you can get from me.

Now go fetch enough data to show me a recognizable trend or STFU, dumbass.

[MadCatX]

It is the best that you can get. As far as package popularity goes: the same issues affect the other desktops, plus neither of these two distributions are rolling, so they tend to stay on a certain (major) release during the cycle. Due to that, it becomes comparable. If you have better numbers at hand that prove the opposite: feel free to link them.

Just because some data of questionable quality is the only data you get doesn't mean that you can use it as a reliable indicator. I believe that Mageia, OpenMandriva, Chakra (and Manjaro to some extent) use Plasma as a default DE. Frankly I'm not sure if there ever was anything that would qualify as a mainstream distro shipping with KDE perhaps besides (Open)SUSE. Mandrake/Mandriva is a thing of a distant past.

[darclide]

Well, fine then, if a trend is the only thing you can live with, let's look at the same source over the last years:

https://constantmayhem.com/ty-stuff/linuxsurvey/2013.html

to

https://brashear.me/blog/2014/05/18/results-of-the-2014-slash-r-slash-linux-distribution-survey/

to

https://brashear.me/blog/2015/08/24/results-of-the-2015-slash-r-slash-linux-distribution-survey/

pretty devastating, isn't it?

Now go fetch enough data to show me a recognizable trend or STFU, dumbass.

Awwww, how cute it is when it gets mad <3

So, again I delivered upon request, when do you deliver anything but insults and rage because people dare pointing at existing problems with your favourite toy?

[Nth_man]

It is, but if you compare it to popularity contests, like the 2015 or 2014 linux magazine polls, it looks very bad.

As anyone can see:

In 2014:

Last week at CeBIT, KDE won the [Linux New Media Readers Choice Award 2014](http://www.linux-magazin.de/NEWS/Ceb...ewinnen-Preise) for the best Linux Desktop Environment. 46% of the readers of Linux New Media's global publications voted for KDE. Runner-ups were GNOME with 18% and XFCE with 13%. [...]

In 2013:

KDE easily takes top spot this year over Unity, and GNOME (in any of its forms) is down below.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/rc2013?page=8

In 2012:

KDE's top spot
http://www.linuxjournal.com/slidesho...ce-2012?page=3

[Del_]

2012 is the best you can find? 2015 they also raised ~15k €, the thing they did was lower the goal from > 30k so the failure doesn't look so bad.
But they still don't get nearly enough, 2012 the goal and needed money got actually reached, the past years it did not.

Eh, so they even raised more than last year. And you present the 2016 number, knowing it was the best fundraiser they ever had, as proof of dying. And you claim to be the only one documenting claims. Whatever you are having, I need some. Life must be good in lala-land.

When you finally got around to attempt a trend, we see KDE among the top three desktops there consistently. Granted Gnome3 has a strong showing now, and Unity of course will ride the Ubuntu wave. I see no sign of dying, I see huge piles of evidence that KDE is and always has been among the most popular desktops in linux land. Not to mention that infighting in linux land is incredibly stupid. People should use what they like, and not talk down others. I have no idea of what you hope to accomplish with your rants. Do you have any idea?

[darclide]

Eh, so they even raised more than last year. And you present the 2016 number, knowing it was the best fundraiser they ever had, as proof of dying.

While it is similar in amount of money made, the actual goal they set is important. Because that is the money needed. It's similar to the real economy: it doesn't matter if you made the same amount of money as last year when the expenses increased.

When you finally got around to attempt a trend, we see KDE among the top three desktops there consistently.

It's not terribly hard to be among the top 3 when only so many comparable desktops are still around.
Also it is cute that you wanted numbers, and now where you see a good trend of Plasma losing users compared to Gnome and Unity, you suddenly go

Granted Gnome3 has a strong showing now, and Unity of course will ride the Ubuntu wave. I see no sign of dying, I see huge piles of evidence that KDE is and always has been among the most popular desktops in linux land. Not to mention that infighting in linux land is incredibly stupid. People should use what they like, and not talk down others.

So back to the usual. Ask for something, get it provided, fidget around. Lovely.

I have no idea of what you hope to accomplish with your rants. Do you have any idea?

Well, initially I just wanted to point out how bad the situation in KDE land is, but right now it's quite funny to see you people throw tantrums and start insulting when people point out that your favourite toy is in a bad shape. Instead of, I don't know, maybe starting to fix it instead of denying that there are problems. All fine with me, I shall eat my popcorn and watch the ship sink.

[starshipeleven]

pretty devastating, isn't it?

Nope. Let's introduce another important concept in statistics: "statistically significant test size".

For a trend to be truly on a global scale, you need to either make studies with enough participants that there is no possibility that you are simply getting an abnormal distribution of people, or make a buttload of small studies and make averages off that.

What would happen if 4 people out of 10 like X, but in your study you ask 3 people and you get all the ones that like X, you would be thinking everyone would like X then, but you would be wrong, because you didn't ask to enough people.

And this is where I put a nail on the coffin of the bs you say: You cannot get statistically significant numbers in these polls because simply there is no way to track how much people is using linux, in what shape and form on a scale big enough.

So these polls have a very relative value. As others have shown already, it's not hard to find polls where KDE won repeatedly for a bunch of years.

[darclide]

You can deny it as much as you want:

with the financial situation, the user situation, the developer situation and the distribution situation all pointing in the same direction: it is a sinking ship.
Of course this won't change your mind and you will keep denying it. Perfectly fine with me. I'll gladly show up at every upcoming similar article, point at you and laugh. Maybe spend more time fixing things than denying problems here. There are a couple of "searching for maintainer" calls, maybe take one of these.

Good luck with that sinking ship of yours and read you later, pretty sure the next bad news will follow soon anyway