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It's Looking Like Debian 9.0 Stretch Won't Support OwnCloud

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Pajn View Post
    Web developers does not think so, PHP developers does. Please don't mix PHP developers with serious web developers.
    I know a few Ruby developers who think this way. What language to serious web developers use?

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    • #22
      A web application that brings along bundled libraries? Un-fscking-acceptable! That's a terrible, no, a horrible security nightmare.
      No half-way sane admin would even remotely consider running this.
      Let's hope the Debian package maintainers show some common sense and refuse to package this nonsense. If users want to shoot their own foot by manually ruining the security of their system, so be it, but the distribution shouldn't actively help them do it.

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      • #23
        The solution for owncloud is to create a docker image with all their modifications, and make that the only supported platform.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by boltronics View Post
          I know a few Ruby developers who think this way. What language to serious web developers use?
          Whatever it is a true scotsman would use...

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          • #25
            Originally posted by mjog View Post

            Does it also do calendars and contacts? I've been testing out Cozy since if you're not going to get distro-supported packages, there's no reason to put up with PHP and you may as well dive down the rabbit hole that is modern web development that depends on Pip/NPN/GEM and a compiler on your server. :<
            As far as I know. No. You need an extra server for that (like Baikal).

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            • #26
              good riddance.

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              • #27
                So, it looks like Ubuntu Snappy will come to the rescue!

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                • #28
                  Just to add to the discussion: I tracked down the Fedora FESCO ticket to give ownCloud a bundled library exception. The bundled libraries are:
                  PHP: smb4php (single php class, newest release, 5 years old) php-when (single php class, latest commit 2 years ago, probably dead) phpass (2 files, project doesn't look too active, latest commit 20 months ago)
                  it seems pointless to re-package those old and abandoned php classes.
                  JavaScript?: chosen, fullcalender and timepicker
                  Note: this FESCO ticket was opened anywhere between 3yrs and 14 months ago, so the states of these projects may have changed (or gotten worse) in the mean time.
                  All opinions are my own not those of my employer if you know who they are.

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                  • #29
                    For the use-case of ownCloud, I've been playing with hosting my own instance of the open source sandstorm.io software. So far it works great, though I haven't done any heavy lifting with it.

                    The Sandstorm developers are up front that their project is in heavy development beta, so they change things too quickly to make it worthwhile to make a software package for Debian or Fedora or similar. They have their own security update mechanism.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by chrisq View Post
                      The solution for owncloud is to create a docker image with all their modifications, and make that the only supported platform.
                      The more projects turn to docker as a deployment solution, them more it becomes clear how problematic Apt and the LSB is. Don't get me wrong, you're absolutely right suggesting docker to circumvent distribution mandated library restrictions. But, for debian, it means their package system is simply outdated. Maybe, the NixOS solution of packaging multiple libraries and incorporating containment right into the packaging system is the right technical choice. Maybe, it's time for debian to start thinking about leaving the aging apt behind and seek greener pastures...

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