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Mozilla's Servo Is Whooping The Other Browsers In Performance

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  • #11
    Servo proves yet another time -- at least to me -- that other engines are either badly developed or extremely over-engineered. Those who know how to use C or C++ properly can work wonders around them and I'm sure many of you would agree with me.
    • Is C++ a bloated and complex language to teach yourself? Yes if you plan to teach yourself how the whole language actually works (let's not forget its Templates too). Good luck with that; I'm playing around it since 2003 and still have no idea how the hell it works lol!
    • Is C suitable for large and complex projects too? Yes, but demands great discipline and macro sorcery. I would not use it though myself for extremely large projects, unless it's at a level of an operating system or sub-categories of an OS.
    • Is Rust the language that would or should replace C or C++? I don't think it would replace existing large codebases, but it would surely going to inspire people to start new projects working around it and as the time will be passing by, we will see how well it will be doing.

    By the way, this is not a troll attempt to underestimate Rust's powers or as a language; on the contrary, I plan to learn it eventually, but it really hurts my feelings as a C / C++ hobbyist when certain projects prove how some others are badly designed.

    Just compare PHP 5.x series with PHP 7. It's still implemented in C and after thorough investigation by a core member, he discovered some important elements of implementation that should have be rewritten differently and guess what? After doing so, PHP 7 run like bullet comparing it with 5.6, let alone with 5.3 that most shared hosting servers still use.

    Cheers.

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    • #12
      IOW, they have the way of offloading certain loads to GPU and now they excel at offloading certain loads to GPU.

      Wooow, who could ever thunk that...

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      • #13
        GPU rendering is the future of web browser engines.

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        • #14
          I would say the measurement in this case is wrong! Assuming VSync is enabled and webrender is caped at 60 fps ... it is far more capable than 60 fps i would guess.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by higuita View Post
            They invented a new language because C is not safe, it is easy to build security problems with C. It is also harder to build multi-threaded code with C.
            people who can't learn c++ have to invent their own toy languages
            Originally posted by higuita View Post
            Rust takes the best of all languages, it is fast, safe, multi-thread by default, with lots of features.
            there are thousands of languages with same claims. they have no tools, no developers, no libraries and die in obscurity
            Originally posted by higuita View Post
            If they manage to build a firefox using it and it works as planned, it will be much safer and faster than all other browsers... and it will prove that RUST can be used in big projects, specially if security is needed.
            servo is fast on this benchmark not because of rust, but because of gpu rendering. every other browser with gpu rendering will be as fast.
            because of rust ( i am quoting youtube video description ) "there are a lot of features it doesn't support, and it crashes a lot, and the output it a bit aliased"
            so much for fast, safe and featureful
            Last edited by pal666; 08 March 2016, 12:23 PM.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by stephen82 View Post
              Is C++ a bloated and complex language to teach yourself? Yes if you plan to teach yourself how the whole language actually works (let's not forget its Templates too). Good luck with that; I'm playing around it since 2003 and still have no idea how the hell it works lol!
              you should stick with php
              acutally, core language spec of c++ is not larger than that of c# or java. but library spec of java is order of magnitude larger than c++, and c# is order of magnitude larger than java. where are all those pople claiming java and c# are bloated and complex?
              Last edited by pal666; 08 March 2016, 12:26 PM.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by higuita View Post
                They invented a new language because C is not safe, it is easy to build security problems with C. It is also harder to build multi-threaded code with C.
                Rust takes the best of all languages, it is fast, safe, multi-thread by default, with lots of features. If they manage to build a firefox using it and it works as planned, it will be much safer and faster than all other browsers... and it will prove that RUST can be used in big projects, specially if security is needed.
                this is the way of mozilla leapfrog big pockets companies like google, microsoft and apple and fix several of the problems of the web in just one shot.
                Wow! Maybe this time Mozilla literally hit the spot!
                I wonder, if Rust is as complete as C and so blazing faster'n'safer, will be possible to write a really, really, REALLY huge and critical project in Rust?
                Something is usually written in C and which security and speed are really crucial features?
                Something like.....
                ...LINUX KERNEL?
                Or, well, just A kernel?

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by Pickup View Post

                  Wow! Maybe this time Mozilla literally hit the spot!
                  I wonder, if Rust is as complete as C and so blazing faster'n'safer, will be possible to write a really, really, REALLY huge and critical project in Rust?
                  Something is usually written in C and which security and speed are really crucial features?
                  Something like.....
                  ...LINUX KERNEL?
                  Or, well, just A kernel?
                  Well, it is already possible to write simple bootable programs with Rust: http://blog.theincredibleholk.org/bl...oting-to-rust/

                  Also, I found this: https://github.com/charliesome/rustboot

                  I think it would indeed be a better idea to design a new kernel from scratch rather than trying to re-write an old C kernel in Rust.

                  Edit: Also this seems to be interesting and more recent: https://github.com/ryanra/RustOS
                  Last edited by M1kkko; 08 March 2016, 12:31 PM.

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                  • #19
                    Yay. How about also have a responsive UI?

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by pal666 View Post
                      people who can't learn c++ have to invent their own toy languages
                      An important consideration in choosing a program language is not what it makes possible, but what it makes idiomatic. A highly skilled C++ developer can write a C++ alternative to any other program written in any language. But you have to jump through hoops in Rust to enable behavior that can lead to many kinds of accidental errors, while a C++ developer has to constantly discipline himself (or herself) not to make those mistakes.

                      That said, I've heard people make the argument that a brand new browser engine written in C++x14 with only unique_ptr and other similar features and zero legacy C++ libraries would require much less effort to maintain as securely as Rust. That's a valid point - but Servo was started before the C++x11 specification was finished, let alone C++x14.

                      Originally posted by pal666 View Post
                      there are thousands of languages with same claims. they have no tools, no developers, no libraries and die in obscurity
                      If everyone had an attitude like that, we'd all be using Autocode and Fortran.

                      I agree with your point that Servo was fast due to GPU rendering, and nothing inherent to Rust or Servo itself. And a benchmark before having a high degree of standards-compliance is useless. If you skip implementing half the HTML spec, I'm sure it's easier to make the parts you do implement fast. Once Servo can match at least one of Firefox Gecko, Chrome Webkit, or Edge EdgeHTML for HTML standards compliance and is stable, then it makes sense to measure performance. Until then it's an apples to orange skateboards comparison.

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