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Fedora 23: KDE vs. Xfce vs. GNOME vs. LXDE vs. MATE

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Barnabas View Post

    And on this topic I think it would be nice to see some articles on how to configure the various desktops for the best performance rather than just out of the box settings. I always like to "tune" my setups for the best performance, but being a Linux noob I don't really know where to start.
    Not sure if it would help, but I have a text file with a bunch of Linux-specific tweaks and other general configuration stuff (mainly for Fedora 22/23) that I maintain. I add new stuff to it whenever I find it out; just a little bit ago I added some PulseAudio-specific stuff
    Linux-Stuff - Various commands and stuff I use to set Linux machines up.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
      Concerning "Suspend desktop effects for fullscreen windows" in Plasma: please note that this option does nothing for Intel hardware. Due to crashers in the past in the Intel driver we deactivated that option for Intel and won't ever turn it on again.

      We consider this a useless option for Plasma. If one wants to run games: turn of desktop effects completely. Alt+Shift+F12 to do so, use a kwin rule to set it automatically for a window or use a "game script" (see http://kde-look.org/content/show.php...content=156659). Even games can indicate to KWin that they want desktop effects disabled by a simple property.

      Given that we consider turning desktop effects off the correct way to play games on Linux (ideally you launch your own dedicated X Server), we don't care at all about benchmarks like that. We consider them actually a joke. They are done in a wrong way (hey let's test only one hardware and tell everyone that this is the ultimate way to do benchmarks!) and don't say anything useful anyway.
      Martin,

      Could you clarify what you mean here, please? What you are saying actually makes kde sound much worse than any test results. Are you saying that you have a sugar pill option for disabling compositing that you consider "a useless option for Plasma."? And, instead of clicking a toggle and then clicking apply, the average user should instead create a script? Or run a separate server?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by sorab View Post
        Martin, you suggest to run a dedicated XServer for Games. Just curious: do you mean running a dedicated XServer alongside (i.e. at the same time) with the XServer KDE is running on, or to shutdown the desktop XServer first (in other words: log out, then log in again on a DE-less session)?
        I think alongside should work just fine (assuming that X properly does nothing when not active). If X is still eating CPU/GPU when not active, logout makes sense.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by shawnsterp View Post
          Are you saying that you have a sugar pill option for disabling compositing that you consider "a useless option for Plasma."?
          No, I'm saying that "unredirect fullscreen windows" is a useless option and we have better ways in Plasma (e.g. turning compositing OFF). Also we think that having a more sane default configuration is more important than ensuring we will score well in a useless Phoronix benchmark. (If we wanted to score well in a Phoronix benchmark: hell yeah, I know how to detect the benchmark and how to tweak KWin that it will be number 1).

          Originally posted by shawnsterp View Post
          And, instead of clicking a toggle and then clicking apply, the average user should instead create a script? Or run a separate server?
          Average user? Well look at the numbers of this benchmark: no user will have a problem with playing games on Plasma. Only if you are OMG, there are two frames per second less than on $FOO it will be a problem. For these kind of users: go ahead, run your own X if you think it gives you more FPS.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
            (If we wanted to score well in a Phoronix benchmark: hell yeah, I know how to detect the benchmark and how to tweak KWin that it will be number 1).
            Just make sure Volkswagen won't sue you for patent infringement :P

            Joke aside. I will try running games on a separate XOrg instance this evening. Never considered this, as I assumed the redundacy of two XOrgs must eat up more ressources than one. But given that this idea is comming from the KWin maintainer, I will certainly give it a try.
            Michael, this might be a good topic for a benchmark: PTS on KDE vs PTS alongside KDE on a separate XServer

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            • #36
              Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post

              No, I'm saying that "unredirect fullscreen windows" is a useless option and we have better ways in Plasma (e.g. turning compositing OFF). Also we think that having a more sane default configuration is more important than ensuring we will score well in a useless Phoronix benchmark. (If we wanted to score well in a Phoronix benchmark: hell yeah, I know how to detect the benchmark and how to tweak KWin that it will be number 1).



              Average user? Well look at the numbers of this benchmark: no user will have a problem with playing games on Plasma. Only if you are OMG, there are two frames per second less than on $FOO it will be a problem. For these kind of users: go ahead, run your own X if you think it gives you more FPS.

              Martin, I have great respect to you and all the other KDE developers, as a long time KDE user. But I don't agree with your position in this issue.

              I have a big ass PC, it cost me a lot of money, and when I play games in it, especially heavy games (and now in Linux we have a lot of then), I sure want every single FPS I can get, because I'm not playing these games at 150 FPS, I'm getting below 60 FPS in a lot of then, so every FPS does count. Even Indie games, that I play in my work machine with a APU, need some optimization to get playable FPS.

              So I obviously, as a long time KDE user, know about tweaks to get it my way, that's why I use KDE. But if you make defaults difficult or complicated to the newbie, they sure will look for alternatives. And there is a lot of then now. KDE is no longer in front position in desktop popularity, and be antagonistic to the user wishes will only make things worst. Whats is the point in having the best DE if nobody uses it?

              Again, this is not a attack, or bashing, or else, is only a wish to you to hear the needs of the KDE users.
              Last edited by M@GOid; 26 October 2015, 11:55 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by M@GOid View Post
                I have a big ass PC, it cost me a lot of money, and when I play games in it, especially heavy games (and now in Linux we have a lot of then), I sure want every single FPS I can get, because I'm not playing these games at 150 FPS, I'm getting below 60 FPS in a lot of then, so every FPS does count. Even Indie games, that I play in my work machine with a APU, need some optimization to get playable FPS.
                Sure, one should have 60 FPS. Not one frame more. Now please look at the benchmark result in this benchmark: all values are significantly above the 60 fps threshold. So given that: I don't care about it. The only relevant question is whether we don't get the 60 FPS when we should get it. This benchmark doesn't answer the question and I haven't seen any on Phoronix yet which would answer that question (sure there were benchmarks where it didn't hit the 60, but then all test candidates were significantly below 60). I have no data on which I could say that we do not get the 60 FPS when we should. So from my perspective everything is fine.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
                  Sure, one should have 60 FPS. Not one frame more. Now please look at the benchmark result in this benchmark: all values are significantly above the 60 fps threshold. So given that: I don't care about it. The only relevant question is whether we don't get the 60 FPS when we should get it. This benchmark doesn't answer the question and I haven't seen any on Phoronix yet which would answer that question (sure there were benchmarks where it didn't hit the 60, but then all test candidates were significantly below 60). I have no data on which I could say that we do not get the 60 FPS when we should. So from my perspective everything is fine.
                  I am afraid you are not being very constructive. Benchmarks should try to be representative. Designing them so that they capture the break-point of 60fps on every set-up is not practically feasible, and I am sure you understand that. The relevant questions are whether the performance differences matter, and whether they represent real sub-60fps situations. It does and they do. I am running Debian testing on my main machines here, and upgrading to Plasma 5.4 has been a bit on the painful side, but that is another story. It seems system settings no longer allows me to turn off compositing for full screen windows, and from the thread I assume it is on by default. Thanks for reminding me of the Shift+Alt+F12 shortcut, but honestly, we need to have a default set-up that gives excellent performance. Performance matters.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
                    We consider this a useless option for Plasma. If one wants to run games: turn of desktop effects completely. Alt+Shift+F12 to do so, use a kwin rule to set it automatically for a window or use a "game script" (see http://kde-look.org/content/show.php...content=156659). Even games can indicate to KWin that they want desktop effects disabled by a simple property.
                    Because expecting the end-users to shift+alt+f12 for games is the way to go. Well, I guess than with wayland that won't matter (afaik compositing does not affect fps on it), so I guess than until that moment is when kde will have a chance to really improve how user-friendly it can become.

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                    • #40
                      "... FirePro V7900 GPU ..."
                      The FirePro V7900 is NOT a GPU. It is an entire graphics card.

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