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Fedora 23: KDE vs. Xfce vs. GNOME vs. LXDE vs. MATE

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  • M@GOid
    replied
    Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post

    No, I'm saying that "unredirect fullscreen windows" is a useless option and we have better ways in Plasma (e.g. turning compositing OFF). Also we think that having a more sane default configuration is more important than ensuring we will score well in a useless Phoronix benchmark. (If we wanted to score well in a Phoronix benchmark: hell yeah, I know how to detect the benchmark and how to tweak KWin that it will be number 1).



    Average user? Well look at the numbers of this benchmark: no user will have a problem with playing games on Plasma. Only if you are OMG, there are two frames per second less than on $FOO it will be a problem. For these kind of users: go ahead, run your own X if you think it gives you more FPS.

    Martin, I have great respect to you and all the other KDE developers, as a long time KDE user. But I don't agree with your position in this issue.

    I have a big ass PC, it cost me a lot of money, and when I play games in it, especially heavy games (and now in Linux we have a lot of then), I sure want every single FPS I can get, because I'm not playing these games at 150 FPS, I'm getting below 60 FPS in a lot of then, so every FPS does count. Even Indie games, that I play in my work machine with a APU, need some optimization to get playable FPS.

    So I obviously, as a long time KDE user, know about tweaks to get it my way, that's why I use KDE. But if you make defaults difficult or complicated to the newbie, they sure will look for alternatives. And there is a lot of then now. KDE is no longer in front position in desktop popularity, and be antagonistic to the user wishes will only make things worst. Whats is the point in having the best DE if nobody uses it?

    Again, this is not a attack, or bashing, or else, is only a wish to you to hear the needs of the KDE users.
    Last edited by M@GOid; 26 October 2015, 11:55 AM.

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  • sorab
    replied
    Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
    (If we wanted to score well in a Phoronix benchmark: hell yeah, I know how to detect the benchmark and how to tweak KWin that it will be number 1).
    Just make sure Volkswagen won't sue you for patent infringement :P

    Joke aside. I will try running games on a separate XOrg instance this evening. Never considered this, as I assumed the redundacy of two XOrgs must eat up more ressources than one. But given that this idea is comming from the KWin maintainer, I will certainly give it a try.
    Michael, this might be a good topic for a benchmark: PTS on KDE vs PTS alongside KDE on a separate XServer

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  • mgraesslin
    replied
    Originally posted by shawnsterp View Post
    Are you saying that you have a sugar pill option for disabling compositing that you consider "a useless option for Plasma."?
    No, I'm saying that "unredirect fullscreen windows" is a useless option and we have better ways in Plasma (e.g. turning compositing OFF). Also we think that having a more sane default configuration is more important than ensuring we will score well in a useless Phoronix benchmark. (If we wanted to score well in a Phoronix benchmark: hell yeah, I know how to detect the benchmark and how to tweak KWin that it will be number 1).

    Originally posted by shawnsterp View Post
    And, instead of clicking a toggle and then clicking apply, the average user should instead create a script? Or run a separate server?
    Average user? Well look at the numbers of this benchmark: no user will have a problem with playing games on Plasma. Only if you are OMG, there are two frames per second less than on $FOO it will be a problem. For these kind of users: go ahead, run your own X if you think it gives you more FPS.

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  • mgraesslin
    replied
    Originally posted by sorab View Post
    Martin, you suggest to run a dedicated XServer for Games. Just curious: do you mean running a dedicated XServer alongside (i.e. at the same time) with the XServer KDE is running on, or to shutdown the desktop XServer first (in other words: log out, then log in again on a DE-less session)?
    I think alongside should work just fine (assuming that X properly does nothing when not active). If X is still eating CPU/GPU when not active, logout makes sense.

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  • shawnsterp
    replied
    Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
    Concerning "Suspend desktop effects for fullscreen windows" in Plasma: please note that this option does nothing for Intel hardware. Due to crashers in the past in the Intel driver we deactivated that option for Intel and won't ever turn it on again.

    We consider this a useless option for Plasma. If one wants to run games: turn of desktop effects completely. Alt+Shift+F12 to do so, use a kwin rule to set it automatically for a window or use a "game script" (see http://kde-look.org/content/show.php...content=156659). Even games can indicate to KWin that they want desktop effects disabled by a simple property.

    Given that we consider turning desktop effects off the correct way to play games on Linux (ideally you launch your own dedicated X Server), we don't care at all about benchmarks like that. We consider them actually a joke. They are done in a wrong way (hey let's test only one hardware and tell everyone that this is the ultimate way to do benchmarks!) and don't say anything useful anyway.
    Martin,

    Could you clarify what you mean here, please? What you are saying actually makes kde sound much worse than any test results. Are you saying that you have a sugar pill option for disabling compositing that you consider "a useless option for Plasma."? And, instead of clicking a toggle and then clicking apply, the average user should instead create a script? Or run a separate server?

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  • Guest
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Barnabas View Post

    And on this topic I think it would be nice to see some articles on how to configure the various desktops for the best performance rather than just out of the box settings. I always like to "tune" my setups for the best performance, but being a Linux noob I don't really know where to start.
    Not sure if it would help, but I have a text file with a bunch of Linux-specific tweaks and other general configuration stuff (mainly for Fedora 22/23) that I maintain. I add new stuff to it whenever I find it out; just a little bit ago I added some PulseAudio-specific stuff
    Linux-Stuff - Various commands and stuff I use to set Linux machines up.

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  • sorab
    replied
    Martin, you suggest to run a dedicated XServer for Games. Just curious: do you mean running a dedicated XServer alongside (i.e. at the same time) with the XServer KDE is running on, or to shutdown the desktop XServer first (in other words: log out, then log in again on a DE-less session)?

    Leave a comment:


  • sorab
    replied
    I really wonder why sometimes your results are so no reproduceable for me. XFCE being slower than GNOME 3? Sorry, but I dont need any Phoronix Test Suite to prove that this cant be representative, because I can see with my bare eyes. On my slow machine (EeePC 1005) certain tasks, such as replaying an HD video, cant even be performed under GNOME (neither under KDE, Unity or Cinnamon) without major(!) framedrops; while XFCE is doing just foine with that (using the exact same video playback application on the exact same OS with the exact same drivers on the exact same hardware). OK, you tested a completely different hardware here, but can it make such a difference?
    Also: In your benchmark has the suspend desktop effects on fullscreen opiton been enabled in KDE? (not saying that is has to be in order to be comparable, but it makes a huge difference. I 'd like to suggest always including both options for KDE in bechmarking for comparison)

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  • mgraesslin
    replied
    Originally posted by carewolf View Post

    Isn't that default? At least it used to be.
    No that has never been a default for 5.x and not for as long as I can remember in 4.x

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  • carewolf
    replied
    Originally posted by axfelix View Post
    Would you mind retesting with the "unredirect and disable compositing when there's a fullscreen application running" features enabled in Plasma 5? It takes two mouse clicks in a config window.
    Isn't that default? At least it used to be.

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