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It's Been Three Years Since "GNOME 4.0" Was Proposed

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  • #21
    Using Fedora, I regularly get the new version of Gnome. I agree it is much more polished compared to its release, but still, it is tragic that the developers introduce unnecessary changes in every release, like how the system terminal window works. I Sometimes feel they employ one dedicated developer just to frustrate users.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by GraysonPeddie View Post
      I have made GNOME 3.16 much more usable. The blur is faked by modifying the wallpaper. Conky's (below as dock with clock and date/time) transparency matched with the top bar, although I can only specify from 0.00 to 1.00 (0% to 100%) for the top bar and 0 to 255 for conky. Now the only thing missing is the global menu and that's about it.

      Oh, and because the blur is faked, if I want to change to another wallpaper, I will have to fake the blur as well.

      Oh, and I don't want a me-too Windows-ish desktop environment. I prefer something that is Mac-like.
      ? This looks very similar to my current Plasma setup, except I dont like the top bar and removed it.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by finalzone View Post

        - Working in progress
        - Gnome 3.18 reached that level. Also look at Fedora Workstation tasklist
        - In progress
        - Already in place, with xdg-app based on ostree. See https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps
        Right. I was aware of most of that. The short summary of my post is that my answer to "What should the GNOME team do next?" is "Just keep going down the path you're already on, it's superb."

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Marc Driftmeyer View Post

          Sorry, but GNOME 2 blew. It was a hobbled clash of MacOS and Windows.
          Regardless of whether you think it was PRETTY or not, it was USABLE. There is no excuse for compromising THAT feature, which should always be #1.

          As much as I like a number of the characteristics of Gnome 3 (and I actually do), I don't and CAN'T use it, since they force things down your throat along with it that compromises usability. Things like gnome-shell, and *removing* functionality from Nautilus. Nautilus, at least, can be swapped out for alternative file browsers, but gnome-shell is stuck, and as much as the whole idea of plugins is nice, it really turns into a hackish nightmare when you get in ALLLLLLLLLLLLL the different pieces needed to turn gnome-shell into something useful.

          Until gnome-shell goes away and is replaced by something that actually supports a PRODUCTIVE and EFFICIENT use of gnome (or is fixed), it kills the whole thing.

          What gnome doesn't seem to understand is that a DE is not an end-user application. A DE is there to facilitate access and use of productivity software, and otherwise just get right the heck out of the way. In that regard, gnome-panel (which is the name for the gnome-2 screen bars, roughly corresponding to gnome-shell), was infinitely superior to gnome-shell. And yes, I am quite happy to admit that gnome-panel is a frikkin nightmare on a touchscreen, on which I would have somewhat LESS complaint over gnome-shell (but still lacking). Of course, I don't use a touchscreen for my day-to-day heavy lifting, since all of my heavy-lifting software would ALSO be a nightmare on a touchscreen. I get shivers just imagining trying to use eclipse on a touchscreen.

          Frankly, I think that gnome did a very bad job in getting to something for a touchscreen that was done QUITE a bit better by Google in the form of the default launcher and task switcher on Android. That was my second serious complaint about gnome -- the overview/application switcher/WTF page you get when you hit the button with the anti-competitive operating system's logo on it. Its ok with up to TWO open applications, but when you are riding a dozen browser windows, a few documents in libreoffice, eclipse, and several terminal windows, you lose the ability to differentiate between them, rendering the whole screen useless. In contrast, Android gives you a prioritized list of applications (based on most recent use) and an overview that is actually visible, on ANY size of screen. Of course, Android's application window sucks bad with a mouse and keyboard.


          If gnome wants to do it right, this is what they need to do;
          1) provide TWO UI modes. One being a DESKTOP mode that doesn't have to be the same as gnome-panel, but should target the same kind of workflow, the other being a TOUCHSCREEN mode.
          2) fix the overview screen so that it is actually useful. Maybe copy Android for the touchscreen mode? I don't really know what would be good for Desktop mode, NOBODY has ever done that right. Maybe just use of reasonable keyboard and mouse gestures would be enough. up/down key or scroll wheel to roll the list up and down, enter/mouseclick/leftarrow to select, right-click/right-arrow to open menu --> kill process, new process, move, etc.
          3) in touchscreen mode (which would be the current gnome-shell setup), make the trigger button for opening the "application drawer" something you can ACTUALLY HIT with a poke of a touchscreen (that, along with the useless overview mode, are what breaks it for touchscreen use, as well as the midget-sized power/settings menu).
          4) in DESKTOP mode, provide an application list bar on ALL screens, and maybe even a per-screen overview mode.
          5) also in DESKTOP mode, add back all the missing functionality in nautilus.

          If they did that, I would consider switching back to gnome for both touchscreen AND desktop. Leave some of that out, and I might consider it for one or the other (as long as it hits all the points for that kind of device). Do nothing, and it remains pointless to even consider.


          Per-screen overview mode that I refer to in point 4 would be this; when you go into overview mode for left screen, it leaves what is showing on right-screen alone. Trigger to go into per-screen mode would be fairly simple; if mouse pointer is over that screen's application list bar, do per-screen on that screen only. Mouse pointer NOT over an application list bar, go into all-screens overview.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by droidhacker View Post

            Regardless...
            seems to me you're stuck in 2008 and now just wait for the world to catch up. the idea of desktop and touch being different was tried and failed process ever since then,

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            • #26
              Originally posted by AndyChow View Post
              Gnome 4 should simply be to bring back gnome 2.
              Amen! I've been a GNOME user since its inception in the late 1990's. My name is listed on the monetary donation "Friends of GNOME" page for 2002, the first year of that program. After all those years, I've switched to Xfce. GNOME 3 is just too horrible. Don't get me wrong, it's not a code quality thing, I'm sure some very talented folks have worked very hard on it. But the fundamental problem remains, that GNOME 3 *forces* me to change my workflow, and adopt a new one that I don't care for /at all/.

              IMO, GNOME 2 was UI perfection. That's half the reason I'm using RHEL 6 as my desktop, is to keep the GNOME 2 user interface. Bring it back for GNOME 4. Even if it's not the default, bring it back as an option. And not this wimpy half-assed re-imagined "GNOME Classic" that we have today, which is crippled and missing half the functionality of real GNOME 2.

              Regardless of what your thoughts are on GNOME 3, you have to appreciate the fact that people really do not like to have their workflow disrupted. Microsoft Windows users were up in arms over the Windows 8 tablet UI being forced onto Desktop users. It was such a disaster, Microsoft has reversed course and brought back the start menu for Windows 10. Take a cue and learn from their mistakes, and bring back the GNOME 2 UI. It's debacles like this that are the main contributing factors to Linux on Desktop's failure to gain market share.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post

                Amen! I've been a GNOME user since its inception in the late 1990's. My name is listed on the monetary donation "Friends of GNOME" page for 2002, the first year of that program. After all those years, I've switched to Xfce. GNOME 3 is just too horrible. Don't get me wrong, it's not a code quality thing, I'm sure some very talented folks have worked very hard on it. But the fundamental problem remains, that GNOME 3 *forces* me to change my workflow, and adopt a new one that I don't care for /at all/.

                IMO, GNOME 2 was UI perfection. That's half the reason I'm using RHEL 6 as my desktop, is to keep the GNOME 2 user interface. Bring it back for GNOME 4. Even if it's not the default, bring it back as an option. And not this wimpy half-assed re-imagined "GNOME Classic" that we have today, which is crippled and missing half the functionality of real GNOME 2.

                Regardless of what your thoughts are on GNOME 3, you have to appreciate the fact that people really do not like to have their workflow disrupted. Microsoft Windows users were up in arms over the Windows 8 tablet UI being forced onto Desktop users. It was such a disaster, Microsoft has reversed course and brought back the start menu for Windows 10. Take a cue and learn from their mistakes, and bring back the GNOME 2 UI. It's debacles like this that are the main contributing factors to Linux on Desktop's failure to gain market share.
                Just one question: why should everyone using Gnome 3 be stuck with your narrow minded view of what a good desktop is?

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                • #28
                  Anyone remember the last time Gnome released a new major version - that was a smashing hit with the fans..... oh wait...... no.....

                  Stop giving us new things, give us the same thing we got last time but with less bugs and constructed better. Many elements of GUIs haven't changed in some 20 years. Desktops with Icons. Panels on bottom or top, Docks, etc...

                  It's like a hamburger - no where should a hamburger include spahgetti or ramen noodles - I don't care if you call it "Innovative" or whatever.

                  It would be a mistake for them to bump to Gnome 4.x before solidifying and immortalizing the Gnome 3.x legacy by continuing being damn fine.
                  Last edited by ElectricPrism; 29 July 2015, 02:06 PM.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post

                    Amen! I've been a GNOME user since its inception in the late 1990's. My name is listed on the monetary donation "Friends of GNOME" page for 2002, the first year of that program. After all those years, I've switched to Xfce. GNOME 3 is just too horrible. Don't get me wrong, it's not a code quality thing, I'm sure some very talented folks have worked very hard on it. But the fundamental problem remains, that GNOME 3 *forces* me to change my workflow, and adopt a new one that I don't care for /at all/.

                    IMO, GNOME 2 was UI perfection. That's half the reason I'm using RHEL 6 as my desktop, is to keep the GNOME 2 user interface. Bring it back for GNOME 4. Even if it's not the default, bring it back as an option. And not this wimpy half-assed re-imagined "GNOME Classic" that we have today, which is crippled and missing half the functionality of real GNOME 2.

                    Regardless of what your thoughts are on GNOME 3, you have to appreciate the fact that people really do not like to have their workflow disrupted. Microsoft Windows users were up in arms over the Windows 8 tablet UI being forced onto Desktop users. It was such a disaster, Microsoft has reversed course and brought back the start menu for Windows 10. Take a cue and learn from their mistakes, and bring back the GNOME 2 UI. It's debacles like this that are the main contributing factors to Linux on Desktop's failure to gain market share.
                    Gnome 3.16 includes Gnome Throwback which is essentially Gnome 2.x layout and functionality. Maybe you knew about it, maybe you didn't - I thought it looked and functioned pretty good on Arch.

                    Also, under Gnome 3.16 includes manatory extension "Window list" which puts the bottom window list like Gnome 2.x

                    I think it's safe to say that anyone who is still unaccepting of Gnome Throwback probably just enjoys a good pitchforkin.

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                    • #30
                      GNOME (alongside Elementary's Pantheon) is my favorite DE today. It simplifies the way I use my desktop, and makes almost every action I perform very concise, reliable and intuitive. However, it's not flawless. Here I list the problems I have/see:
                      • Performance: it's good (better than KDE from my point of view), but it could be faster.
                      • Wayland: it's not ready
                      • Login screen: it's configurable, but it's hard to do it from the UI. I had to hide the user list from the command line, and it wasn't simple to do.
                      • Login screen: the way the user's avatar is shown is not very nice. Elementary's round avatar is much prettier.
                      • Activities search: it should allow typos, like Ubuntu does. It would make my workflow much faster, since my keyboard (and my typing skills) make me produce a lot of typos every day.
                      • Activities search: it should return things like shutdown/logout/suspend and networks I can connect. Shoudl also make it simple to search the same thing on the web (with a button on screen and a keyboard shortcut)
                      • Notification center: very nice adition to 3.16, but should have integrated wheather forecasts in it.
                      • Notification center: where are the music controls? I would like to change the track/pause without goind to Rythmbox/GNOME Music.
                      • Theme: the 3.16 is much cleaner and nicer than before. However, I believe we should have an theme even lighter.
                      • Brightness control: very nice adition, but its buggy. Every time I use it, the cursor lags and jumps around. It's usable, but buggy.
                      • New indicator dock: perfect addition, but shouldn't open without a mouse click. It's also buggy.
                      • Favorites' dock: should be possible to change its size.
                      • Applications view: why the hell do I new "GNOME Software" to manage folders? It shoud be a matter of simply drag-n-drop icons around!
                      • Biometric login: buggy with my fingerprint reader. Should also provide face recognition, just like Windows 10.
                      • Lock screen: where are my notifications and sound controls?
                      • Touchpad: I would like to have 3/4 finger commands to change workspaces, drag windows around and opening activities screen.
                      • Evince: we need highlighting/notes support. Bug makes it open my PDFs on 150%.
                      • What the hell is the "Desktop" folder? Shouldn't it be already deprecated?
                      • WiFi networks dialog: why can't I double-click on the chosen network to connect!?
                      • GNOME Music is still very bad for huge music libraries.
                      • GNOME Software lacks...well, softwares (at least on Fedora it don't even offer VLC)
                      • GNOME Terminal: lacks an option to turn dark theme on.

                      I envy OSX Spotlight,Ubuntu's HUD and Windows' Cortana, but I can't see how they would integrate with GNOME just now. Would be nice to see similar features in the future anyway.
                      Last edited by brk0_0; 29 July 2015, 02:33 PM.

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