CodeWeavers Working On Direct3D 11, Better Wine Performance

[RoninDusette]

if they dont implement it themselves in some absurdly redundant way...

I have to be honest; at best, you have a tenuous grasp on the scope of the project and how Wine actually works and interacts with a *nix system... RTFM

[pal666]

Ah yes, if only nvidia was using the amazing mesa that doesn't even support 5 year old technology.

nvidia does not need to use mesa. just open documentation. btw we are talking about wine which doesn't even support 8 year old technology

[RoninDusette]

nvidia does not need to use mesa. just open documentation. btw we are talking about wine which doesn't even support 8 year old technology

What 8-year old technology are you talking about? Example, please. Again, this sounds like just another comment from someone who knows little about how Wine works, and probably doesn't even contribute bug reports, let alone some code....

[Remdul]

@duby229: maybe you haven't used Wine in a long time?

I would even dare to say that Wine now is, at times, more stable than Windows itself. I can even run Autodesk 3dsmax under Wine, with hardware acceleration and all. Performance is somewhat lower (presumably due to GL command conversion layers and such) but perfectly usable. Even though 3dsmax is a total piece-of-shit software stability/quality wise, it crashes *much* less frequently than on Windows, and when it does, it no longer corrupts the autobackup/project files as it did on Windows.

I also use another graphics package (Corel PhotoPaint) daily and occasionally HexWorkshop and they run as fast (if not faster) than on Windows. I encounter only a few minor issues in my daily work (mouse wheel not working in UVW Editor, ugly common dialog etc), and even most of these are actually caused by bugs in the software itself (and not Wine).

YMMV, but damn, am I happy Wine user.

[duby229]

I keep coming back to it hopefully, but my hopes are always dashed violently. There aren't any windows applications I want to run on linux except for games. It usually boils down to games start and can run in many cases, but very few almost none are playable all the way through.

Like I said earlier My personal opinion is that ALL microsoft interfaces should be implemented as natively available API's. Wine shouldn't be anything more than wrappers for them. Wine shouldn't translate anything into anything. It's only job should be to make sure that natively implemented microsoft APIs are available to windows programs.

[RoninDusette]

I keep coming back to it hopefully, but my hopes are always dashed violently. There aren't any windows applications I want to run on linux except for games. It usually boils down to games start and can run in many cases, but very few almost none are playable all the way through.

Like I said earlier My personal opinion is that ALL microsoft interfaces should be implemented as natively available API's. Wine shouldn't be anything more than wrappers for them. Wine shouldn't translate anything into anything. It's only job should be to make sure that natively implemented microsoft APIs are available to windows programs.

Again, you have a very small grasp on how Wine works. That is the point of Wine, dude; to implement the Windows API in a native *nix environment. Which is exactly how it works. Your whole "translation hell" argument is dumb and unfounded.

Many, many, many games are playable ALL of the way through. My wife and I play games through Wine all of the time, beating them all of the way through. Sure, not everything is 100%, but lot's of people have no problem.

[duby229]

Again, you have a very small grasp on how Wine works. That is the point of Wine, dude; to implement the Windows API in a native *nix environment. Which is exactly how it works. Your whole "translation hell" argument is dumb and unfounded.

Many, many, many games are playable ALL of the way through. My wife and I play games through Wine all of the time, beating them all of the way through. Sure, not everything is 100%, but lot's of people have no problem.

Your experiences are very different than mine. It irks me to no end when I find that it's not finishable in wines current state. You end up have multiple installations of wine, each one highly configured for this thing or that thing.

And since when exactly was there any native D3D or win32 or DXVA or etc? Where? Not in wine all of those get translated and plus a whole lot more. Native means linux binaries can call into them.

[RoninDusette]

Your experiences are very different than mine. It irks me to no end when I find that it's not finishable in wines current state. You end up have multiple installations of wine, each one highly configured for this thing or that thing.

And since when exactly was there any native D3D or win32 or DXVA or etc? Where? Not in wine all of those get translated and plus a whole lot more. Native means linux binaries can call into them.

Wow. Experience has nothing to do with actual fact of how it works. I am sorry that you are not able to figure out how to play games through Wine with all of the documentation and apps to help you do so. We just beat "The Wolf Among Us", front to back, all 5 games, through Wine/POL last month. Not a problem. Even used an XBOX 360 controller through Wine.

Again, I said not EVERYTHING gets "translated". You are specifically talking about DirectX calls being translated to openGL. Now, since DirectX will NEVER be ported to Linux, then how in the hell would it ever be native? Your arguments are nonsense, dude.

Fix it then, mastermind. Make it better. It's open source. RTFM. Quit bitching and start coding.

[duby229]

Wow. Experience has nothing to do with actual fact of how it works. I am sorry that you are not able to figure out how to play games through Wine with all of the documentation and apps to help you do so. We just beat "The Wolf Among Us", front to back, all 5 games, through Wine/POL last month. Not a problem. Even used an XBOX 360 controller through Wine.

Again, I said not EVERYTHING gets "translated". You are specifically talking about DirectX calls being translated to openGL. Now, since DirectX will NEVER be ported to Linux, then how in the hell would it ever be native? Your arguments are nonsense, dude.

Fix it then, mastermind. Make it better. It's open source. RTFM. Quit bitching and start coding.

Figures... I shoulda guessed you were one of them... Tell me why exactly do programmers tend to take such harshly anti-userbase stances? You're not the first one and I'm sure not the last.

And it's not just directx, it's everything that doesn't have a native implementation. Which almost everything.

And that people honestly believe that DX and other MS APIs shouldn't be ported to linux is a major part of the biggest problem with wine.

[RoninDusette]

Figures... I shoulda guessed you were one of them... Tell me why exactly do programmers tend to take such harshly anti-userbase stances? You're not the first one and I'm sure not the last.

This is not anti-user. I am telling you that you don't have a clue what you are talking about, and misconstruing the way that Wine actually works. I am actually very pro-user (You could say that I have some experience with Wine and helping users getting it to work...). The arguments that you are making stem from lack of knowledge of how Wine works with a *nix system. Again, seriously, read the fucking manual (RTFM).

And it's not just directx, it's everything that doesn't have a native implementation. Which almost everything.

That is not a Linux problem. Blame that shit on Microsoft and the developers that continue to rely on closed-source engines that don't have the ability or will to port to a Linux system. Wine was created to work around the lack of support for *nix systems when it comes to games and other Win32 apps. One thing you are totally not understanding at all is this:

If the program had native calls, it would not need Wine. Win32 API is not anything like Linux. Wine gives that compatibility. If Linux accepted native Win32 calls in a native manner, it would be be a hybrid of Windows and Linux. How do you NOT understand that a program written for a certain operating system is ONLY written for that OS? Wine enables the program to not even realize that it is NOT on a Windows system. The program thinks that it is running on Windows, because wineserver will respond how the program is expecting. If you read the source code, were a programmer, had a single clue about development, or even read the basic documentation for Wine, this would be glaringly clear.

And that people honestly believe that DX and other MS APIs shouldn't be ported to linux is a major part of the biggest problem with wine.

Dude, who said that those "shouldn't be ported"? First off, DX being ported to *nix requires it to be completely open-sourced. Complain to Microsoft about that. Like, you really don't understand that Wine is an open-source answer to developers only developing for Windows. TeamViewer, a very popular remote access application, has it's linux version distributed as little more than the Win32 version wrapped in it's own version of Wine. This is a testament to how Wine can take code that was ONLY meant for Windows and allow it to run on *nix systems.

I am going to leave it at this; you are obviously not someone who has done much research into how Wine works. Since you are such an expert, though; post some source code. Put up, or shut up. You claim to know better than the hundreds of people who have submitted tests, reports, and code... it is open source software. Do something. You are clueless on how this software does what it does, but you seem to be superawesomewindowscodeguy. I hope to see your fork and patches in the future on your GitHub account or something like that. Come on. Make it better. The whole community would embrace a better solution than Wine with open arms. So far, it is the best at what it does... drop some code and change that.