DNF Package Manager: "Getting More & More Stable"

[ihatemichael]

if it's taking 10 hours, assuming you're not just lying, then that means that your internet connection is slow, as you're downloading what? 2GB worth of files to switch between 21 and 22? The Fedup part doesn't take any longer than a normal installation which is ~ 30 minutes or so.

I didn't use fedup to upgrade.

[Luke_Wolf]

I didn't use fedup to upgrade.

Using yum directly has never been a supported way to move between Fedora versions, it can work, but the official way is to use Fedup or to do a clean install over '/', and in Fedora it's usually best to just clean install and rebuild. It's not Arch where it's a proper rolling release and it's not openSUSE where due to zypper and the OBS the base system is effectively fluid.

[nanonyme]

Using yum directly has never been a supported way to move between Fedora versions, it can work, but the official way is to use Fedup or to do a clean install over '/', and in Fedora it's usually best to just clean install and rebuild. It's not Arch where it's a proper rolling release and it's not openSUSE where due to zypper and the OBS the base system is effectively fluid.

That and if the runtime concept takes on, there's little difference between the two as runtime upgrade is similar to reinstall. Windows refreshing to new OS versions is a similar yet somewhat different concept. Basically what we want is an atomic upgrades but yum's way of accomplishing it means you have a package transaction for all packages which eats insane amounts of RAM and still isn't robust enough. There's negligible improvements to this in dnf as it doesn't fix the core problem which is that a distro release constitutes of complicated dependency network which needs to be calculated every time there's an upgrade. The idea of packages just doesn't scale well for distro upgrades

[ihatemichael]

Using yum directly has never been a supported way to move between Fedora versions, it can work, but the official way is to use Fedup or to do a clean install over '/', and in Fedora it's usually best to just clean install and rebuild. It's not Arch where it's a proper rolling release and it's not openSUSE where due to zypper and the OBS the base system is effectively fluid.

Why then they recommend this on their wiki?

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_yum#Fedora_20_-.3E_Fedora_21

[Ericg]

Why then they recommend this on their wiki?

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgra...-.3E_Fedora_21

Because they have this giant disclaimer at the top:

Upgrading using the yum method described here is not recommended for new users. Use FedUp instead
For upgrades, the recommended upgrade method is the FedUp tool. This section has instructions on using FedUp to upgrade. Although upgrades with yum do work, they are not explicitly tested as part of the release process by the Fedora QA and are not documented in the Fedora installation guide. If you are not prepared to resolve issues on your own if things break, you should probably use the recommended installation methods instead.

They tell you how to do it so that if you DO do it you know what the hell your doing. But you really should be using "fedup --network (release+1) --product=(nonproduct,workstation,server,cloud)"

[ihatemichael]

Because they have this giant disclaimer at the top:



They tell you how to do it so that if you DO do it you know what the hell your doing. But you really should be using "fedup --network (release+1) --product=(nonproduct,workstation,server,cloud)"

Fair enough. I'll use fedup when the time to upgrade to Fedora 22 comes.

Or should I just do a clean reinstall since I've used yum to upgrade?

My Fedora 21 install seems to be working just fine.

[Ericg]

Fair enough. I'll use fedup when the time to upgrade to Fedora 22 comes.

Or should I just do a clean reinstall since I've used yum to upgrade?

My Fedora 21 install seems to be working just fine.

Two part answer lol...

1) The safest thing to do is always reinstall from scratch, no matter the OS.

2) If you ARE going to upgrade in-place you should be perfectly fine doing a fedup upgrade, as long as your current install seems to be working fine. They recommend a FedUp upgrade because it automatically pulls in the new GPG keys (so you dont have to) as well as handling any 'complex' upgrade situations that yum/dnf could not reliably handle on its own from a running system.

[gotwig]

rolling release for fedora, or I dont come back.

[pipe13]

On an unrelated note, one thing I'd like to see is for the dependency trees to be used to allow downloading and installation to happen in parallel and for installations of unrelated software to occur in parallel, possibly for example installing all the independent depends of a package simultaneously.

How would this work? Work well, I mean.

[Ericg]

How would this work? Work well, I mean.

Don't have packagekit / yum / dnf put a lock on the rpm database. But then you'd have to load it up with sanity checks to make sure that two transactions didn't break each other. Now, if everything was self contained in the app, aka bundles, then we could probably do this easily.