KDE Plasma 5 Officially Released

[profoundWHALE]

There has always been Obsidian Coat in the base color theme set. It isn't a black theme, but it is a dark one. And I know Ember is really popular, and thet guy that made that made a flatter version called Hex for Plasma 5.

I do agree they should have (mostly) color inverted versions of their white themes in the stock releases, though.

Wow, I really like Hex! It looks like a modern desktop for sure.

[Guest]

Finally got around to trying out one of the Project Neon snapshot isos, and I have to say I really like Plasma 5's look a lot.

Just have to decide as to which PPA to use on Kubuntu. Weekly sounds safe, daily is what I'm leaning towards, and bleeding edge sounds fun

[sunweb]

Krunner is far more powerful than you probably have taken the time to explore as it's far far more than just a launcher you don't need to for instance remember the specific name of an application you can type in say "web browser" and it will return you a list of all the web browsers you've got installed. If you want to do quick calculations you put an equals sign in front and then do your calculations, and you can even use commas to have multiple calculations in parallel, there's a recent documents plugin, where you can just type in the name of whatever you had open, which also supports bookmarks and such. Most importantly it's quick (no excessively long transitions which I can't stand about windows 8), and non-intrusive. Milou is set to make things better from what I can see in Plasma 5 by giving that list more structure, so if I type in say "wolf" I can see all my pictures, emails, etc about wolves in a categorical fashion.

I know about krunner features. I am pointing out that the wall is simply easier to look at than than the list. Its fine if you disagree but the thing that KDE has all type of launchers in good condition and the one i want and exist in GNOME, Unity and Rosa(KDE mind you) while KDE - the most customizable DE has plain aweful absolutely non customizable(to the point where you can't even rearrange the items in there) and extremely slow version of such menu.
The plugins that you've listed for krunner can be done for such menu as well just like they were created for gnome-shell and unity. Again, its not the plugins i am talking about, its wall vs list.

[stiiixy]

Thank you KDE team! Good to see all these beautiful UI's out there.

I for one actually like where that breeze theme is going, what with the outlines and contrasting colours. Means on a workstation where I need things done quickly, I can quickly visually recognise the bits I need without having the latency of the brain having to process 16bit colours. Sometimes I get lost in the complexity of the arrangement or colours, lines, app window borders and effects (no BS here, sometimes, there's just too much going on and I get sensory overload!). I think this is how old people feel =P

But yeah, that glossy effect on the app windows didn't work for me, not with that particular icon/colour schema. Given time, I'm sure it'll be sweet, just as 4.0 was and blew me away.

Finally, the vertical icon arrrangement on the start panel; bit of a leaf from CinnaMints menu? Whoever invented it, I say it's an excellant arrangement anyway.

[TheBlackCat]

I know about krunner features. I am pointing out that the wall is simply easier to look at than than the list. Its fine if you disagree but the thing that KDE has all type of launchers in good condition and the one i want and exist in GNOME, Unity and Rosa(KDE mind you) while KDE - the most customizable DE has plain aweful absolutely non customizable(to the point where you can't even rearrange the items in there) and extremely slow version of such menu.
The plugins that you've listed for krunner can be done for such menu as well just like they were created for gnome-shell and unity. Again, its not the plugins i am talking about, its wall vs list.

There is a replacement for krunner called sprinter that will be in an upcoming release. The default interface will probably be fairly similar, but it will be much faster under the hood and will make it much easier to make build new UIs on top of it.

[F i L]

Awesome! As a (happy) KDE user for the last 2.5 years, this is very exciting. I understand much of the changes are "beneath the surface", but since it looks like at least one KDE team member is browsing these forums, I'd like to give a few comments and critiques about the interface (both in the video, and about KDE in general), keeping in mind that, I'm sure, you folks have discussed these things in-depth already, and changes are currently underway.

First, what I really like about KDE:

- Customization ability, especially in the Panel and Dolphin
- the new login/lock screen looks great. nice work!
- new folder icons are much better!
- like the feel of the new plasma theme, very clean
- new wallpapers are very clean and sexy too
- everything looks fast (in terms of OpenGL performance) and I can't wait to eventually try with Wayland!
- Dolphin is great! I love being able to set it up exactly how I want.
- Kate is simply awesome! Everything I want in a text-editor (remote editing, vertical hierarchical tabs, mini-map, etc).

Now for my crits:

- Defaults are WAY too cluttered for general users. There should be Three (at most) buttons on windows (Close, Minimize, and maybe Maximize). It would take me 20 minutes to currently explain to my mom/grandma what button she should click to close a window, compared to Gnome which is very straight forward in that regard. The buttons (Ok, Cancel, Close, etc) are also too small and need more padding. All the buttons could also benefit from a bit of margin and color-coding (make 'close' red, 'ok' green, 'settings' blue, etc... and be consistent). Also, make the windows close button a bit bigger than the min/max buttons... I'm sure Microsoft did that based off a lot of user-feedback, as it's very clear what you should be clicking to close the application (and what you shouldn't click if you don't want to close it).

- Animations are too slow... they're pretty (sorta), but I'm working and they're everywhere. Problem is the "fast" animation speed is too fast, and there's no in-between option. I usually just disable them altogether, but wouldn't mind them if I could control the speed a bit better. I also really hate how some plasma "menu item highlights" smoothly tween (position) from one item to the next. Especially on the app menu. It makes everything feel sluggish for some reason. Animations there wouldn't be bad, but simply use opacity fading (which will probably be easier to write anyways) would feel much more responsive. To be honest, almost all UI state changes besides menus/windows appearing/closing/minimizing/etc should be virtually instant, otherwise you're left feeling the like UI is always "catching up" with you. Things like roller-over effects should happen in a blink, at least on the "mouse enter" events (fading away could take a bit longer for visual candy, but not so long it's leaving trails and confusing the user's focus).

- I think the transparency/wobbly effects for window dragging are easily overkill too... make them opt-in, not default.

- Desktop widgets (especially folders) are largely unused (by me) since they're usually covered by folders... these days the first thing I think most people do is open either a browser or file explorer, either of which takes ~40-80% of the screen space up. So spending time making a bunch of clocks and folder widgets is pointless, IMO, since they just get covered up. But perhaps that's just me (so take a poll).

- Same goes for 'Activities'... never used them, probably never will. I'm not saying completely removing these things.. just make them more of an "advanced feature".

- Remove all the menu options and lock up all the widgets (by default). Also, make unlocking widgets and getting to advanced settings a bit more obscure (to keep laymen from screwing things up). Also rename things like "default desktop settings" to just "Desktop Settings". In short, design for mom/grandma types. Those who want to customize things, can easily figure out how to unlock widgets, but if KDE wants to be the best for all users by default, you need to design for the "lowest common denominator" type users. Gnome understands this well, even if they've made some really poor design choices in other areas (like removing the taskbar, adding a gnome-menu, etc).

- Please make it so I can hit the systems/windows key and the app-menu pops up.. please.. This isn't really a big deal, but I really miss this from Windows/Gnome/etc..

- Icons need work. Not just the main ones, but the close/min/max too.. plus a very good monotone set is important for visual appeal. There's also a lot that could be said about putting icons on every button (ok, close, etc..). Often just using text with a colored button, OR and icon ONLY (monotone with color-coding background) would be a much better visual design.

- Please, please stop calling everything KWhatever and use logical descriptions for application aliases to KDE tools. KSysGuard, Dolphin, Kate, etc.. should be 'Task Manager', 'File Explorer', and 'Text Editor'.

---

Anyways, I tried to explain my crits so you understand my thoughts. Overall KDE gets more right than wrong, so kudos and here's to looking forward to KDE 5 and beyond!

[TheBlackCat]

- Defaults are WAY too cluttered for general users. There should be Three (at most) buttons on windows (Close, Minimize, and maybe Maximize). It would take me 20 minutes to currently explain to my mom/grandma what button she should click to close a window, compared to Gnome which is very straight forward in that regard.

I am not sure how this is complicated. On the right, there are just three buttons. On the left, there is only a "pin" button and another button that doesn't even like like an icon. I am not sure what is complicated about clicking on the "X" button to close a window.

Also, make the windows close button a bit bigger than the min/max buttons...

You might want to look at the latest WIP breeze window decoration. Not bigger, but more emphasized.

- I think the transparency/wobbly effects for window dragging are easily overkill too... make them opt-in, not default.

Wobbly isn't enabled by default.

- Desktop widgets (especially folders) are largely unused (by me) since they're usually covered by folders... these days the first thing I think most people do is open either a browser or file explorer, either of which takes ~40-80% of the screen space up. So spending time making a bunch of clocks and folder widgets is pointless, IMO, since they just get covered up. But perhaps that's just me (so take a poll).

The clock and folder widgets on the desktop are the same as the clock and folder on the panel. So if you want a clock in your panel, then you automatically get it on the desktop. You want to get quick access to your desktop on the panel, then you automatically get it on the desktop. That is the whole point of plasma.

- Same goes for 'Activities'... never used them, probably never will. I'm not saying completely removing these things.. just make them more of an "advanced feature".

Activities are one of the key features of plasma. Having your desktop, your files, your windows, even your application settings linked together into task-oriented groups is one of the big breakthroughs of plasma. You may not use it, but plasma developers are not going to put one of the major, critical features of plasma behind an "advanced" wall, especially not just because some people happen not to use it.

- Remove all the menu options and lock up all the widgets (by default). Also, make unlocking widgets and getting to advanced settings a bit more obscure (to keep laymen from screwing things up). Also rename things like "default desktop settings" to just "Desktop Settings". In short, design for mom/grandma types. Those who want to customize things, can easily figure out how to unlock widgets, but if KDE wants to be the best for all users by default, you need to design for the "lowest common denominator" type users. Gnome understands this well, even if they've made some really poor design choices in other areas (like removing the taskbar, adding a gnome-menu, etc).

Making things easier to use is certainly a goal, but locking widgets by default has been discussed and is not going to happen. People are used to desktops that are locked down and unchangeable. The whole point of plasma is that it is flexible. If people aren't made aware of that off-the-bat, that is not going to happen. Android, for example, doesn't support locking widgets at all, and I don't see people complaining that it is unusable by grandma types. In fact, "grandma" types can use android just fine.

plus a very good monotone set is important for visual appeal.

You didn't even look at the screenshots, did you?

- Please, please stop calling everything KWhatever and use logical descriptions for application aliases to KDE tools.

They stopped doing that with KDE 4.0. That was six years ago.

KSysGuard, Dolphin, Kate, etc.. should be 'Task Manager', 'File Explorer', and 'Text Editor'.

Again, look at the screenshots again. They are not going to name things like that because KDE doesn't force you to use the one they ship, but what you are suggesting is exactly how they are presented to users. Besides, which text editor will be called "text editor"? Kate or kwrite?

[F i L]

I am not sure how this is complicated. On the right, there are just three buttons. On the left, there is only a "pin" button and another button that doesn't even like like an icon.

..and most users are unfamiliar with (and probably don't care about) pinning windows, or a tooltip toggling (or whatever that '?' button does).. so they shouldn't be there by default.

I am not sure what is complicated about clicking on the "X" button to close a window.

i agree. which is why i didn't suggest removing that one.

You might want to look at the latest WIP breeze window decoration. Not bigger, but more emphasized.

will do.

Wobbly isn't enabled by default.

been awhile, my bad.

The clock and folder widgets on the desktop are the same as the clock and folder on the panel. So if you want a clock in your panel, then you automatically get it on the desktop. You want to get quick access to your desktop on the panel, then you automatically get it on the desktop. That is the whole point of plasma.

sure, but i disagree with "this is the whole point of plasma" a bit.

Activities are one of the key features of plasma. Having your desktop, your files, your windows, even your application settings linked together into task-oriented groups is one of the big breakthroughs of plasma. You may not use it, but plasma developers are not going to put one of the major, critical features of plasma behind an "advanced" wall, especially not just because some people happen not to use it.

We can disagree about this all day, but in my experience this is a major confusion for every person who I introduced to KDE. Thus my "should be more hidden" comment, and I stand by it. Ultimately, all of these points should take statistical analysis into consideration when talking about default settings... and I would bet a lot on the common person being confused about KDE's Activities.

Making things easier to use is certainly a goal, but locking widgets by default has been discussed and is not going to happen. People are used to desktops that are locked down and unchangeable. The whole point of plasma is that it is flexible. If people aren't made aware of that off-the-bat, that is not going to happen. Android, for example, doesn't support locking widgets at all, and I don't see people complaining that it is unusable by grandma types. In fact, "grandma" types can use android just fine.

KDE UI != Android UI. The most obvious example of where this is important is roll-over vs (android's) long-press to enable widget placement options. Android's is definitely a more explicit motion, and that's why it's perfectly fine for grandma types. If KDE's customization UI worked more like Android's or Cinnamon's then I would somewhat agree with you... but that's basically what I originally said: Locking KDE widgets mean's Unlocking them is a single menu option away, similar to Cinnamon. Purhaps a long-press approach would be best, but I'm not convinced desktop users would be familiar with that at all. Again, statistical analysis (not just within the existing KDE community) should determine this sort of design.

You didn't even look at the screenshots, did you?

watched the video, but didn't study it. Posted right before bed mate. chill..

They stopped doing that with KDE 4.0. That was six years ago.

It's all named KWhatever on my Arch machine which I assumed was a pretty vanilla setup.

Again, look at the screenshots again. They are not going to name things like that because KDE doesn't force you to use the one they ship, but what you are suggesting is exactly how they are presented to users.

Yeah i know it was possible to rename these things, which is why I said 'defaults'.

Besides, which text editor will be called "text editor"? Kate or kwrite?

best would be to depreciate the least supported one, or if one is supposed to be a "code editor" and the other a "text editor" then name them that.

[F i L]

You didn't even look at the screenshots, did you?

Taking another look at the screenshots, it does look like they improved the icon set a lot. Which is great. Good work on that.

[Luke_Wolf]

- Please, please stop calling everything KWhatever and use logical descriptions for application aliases to KDE tools. KSysGuard, Dolphin, Kate, etc.. should be 'Task Manager', 'File Explorer', and 'Text Editor'.

You realize that you can right click on kicker, open up it's settings and unclick show application by name right? and that will give you exactly what you're asking for there.