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  • mgraesslin
    replied
    Originally posted by nerdopolis View Post
    I see. The dummy backend works for me for now as I make a Wayland distro for testing over production, but I guess I should at least try to upstream those other patches? I was able to get all of Frameworks to compile with them, and now more things run without crashing due to X calls, but do they look good enough?
    yes, upstreaming is a good idea. Whether it makes sense to upstream a dummy backend, I'm not really sure. The idea I have in mind is something like https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/114922/ what I wrote this morning. If the approach is liked I will go for the same for the other classes.

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  • nerdopolis
    replied
    Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
    June 2012 - looks like it was a dummy implementation. "Delete _qws and _qpa stubs for kwindowsystem, we need the x11 one on x11."


    well there's nothing wrong with the libs still linking X IMHO. I don't expect most distros to do that in the next few years. So the focus is at the moment more on getting it runtime selectable. That was also a problem with the dummy implementation - it was a compile time instead of a runtime switch.

    I see. The dummy backend works for me for now as I make a Wayland distro for testing over production, but I guess I should at least try to upstream those other patches? I was able to get all of Frameworks to compile with them, and now more things run without crashing due to X calls, but do they look good enough?

    Leave a comment:


  • mgraesslin
    replied
    Originally posted by nerdopolis View Post
    I found a dummy backend for kwindowsystem in a search http://web.archiveorange.com/archive...qujHcjXHpr3Yg6, that was added in early 2012. I had to modify it a bit, but it seems that it was officially removed... I think looking at the git log, it was removed sometime in June 2013.
    June 2012 - looks like it was a dummy implementation. "Delete _qws and _qpa stubs for kwindowsystem, we need the x11 one on x11."

    Originally posted by nerdopolis View Post
    I don't know why it was removed, I didn't test it in runtime, I had to make minor tweaks to other frameworks. I have 57/57 building without X, with a few tweaks, all of them are in this SVN folder. Only one Framework that depends on X in ldd is kdewebkit, because it's linked into qtwebkit.
    http://rebeccablackos.svn.sourceforg...kdeframeworks/
    well there's nothing wrong with the libs still linking X IMHO. I don't expect most distros to do that in the next few years. So the focus is at the moment more on getting it runtime selectable. That was also a problem with the dummy implementation - it was a compile time instead of a runtime switch.

    Leave a comment:


  • nerdopolis
    replied
    Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
    If you want to work with it, please let me know. I will probably become the maintainer of KWindowSystem and have some plans for it to make it completely runtime selection.
    I found a dummy backend for kwindowsystem in a search http://web.archiveorange.com/archive...qujHcjXHpr3Yg6, that was added in early 2012. I had to modify it a bit, but it seems that it was officially removed... I think looking at the git log, it was removed sometime in June 2013.

    I don't know why it was removed, I didn't test it in runtime, I had to make minor tweaks to other frameworks. I have 57/57 building without X, with a few tweaks, all of them are in this SVN folder. Only one Framework that depends on X in ldd is kdewebkit, because it's linked into qtwebkit.
    http://rebeccablackos.svn.sourceforg...kdeframeworks/

    Leave a comment:


  • accumulator
    replied
    Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
    We all know that design is not something which we can objectively can call pretty. I think Oxygen is still quite a good style and the fact that I can still stand it shows that it is well done.

    Why not revamp it? Let's turn the question around: why revamp it? Yes there are people who don't like it, yes there are people who don't like any possible replacement. So what would we gain from it? Instead of people complaining how ugly Oxygen is, we would get people complaining about that the old style was much better. So why fix what isn't broken?

    And of course we would like to have more designers and people who want to work on styles.
    I like both the Oxygen widget set and the Oxygen window decorations and use them always. But the only thing that should really change is the default of having the blue active window glow enabled. That's really the very first thing I turn off after logging into a fresh account.

    Leave a comment:


  • GreatEmerald
    replied
    Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
    Ah, it's not just the color scheme I was complaining about. Here's some other things which I personally (there's that word again... :P) don't like:
    - The window decorations were tiny on my 720p screen, so I don't want to think about what they'd be like on my new 1080p screen (which isn't all that much bigger physical-size wise). While an argument could be made that there's nothing wrong with small buttons, there could be an equally strong argument about why small buttons suck.
    - The color scheme (the blue is fine and dandy, it's just the grey that gets on my nerves for some reason...)
    - The padding. This is a bit of a more hard to explain thing for me (I'm not very good at explaining things) but I think the padding is the worst part of it :/
    The padding things leads me into another question about whether the padding/size stuff (especially in applications) can even be changed by themes like it can in GTK-based stuff.
    Yes it can. Both the widgets and the window decorations are very customisable. I always set the window control buttons to be a bit bigger than default, too.

    Leave a comment:


  • mgraesslin
    replied
    Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
    The window decorations were tiny on my 720p screen, so I don't want to think about what they'd be like on my new 1080p screen (which isn't all that much bigger physical-size wise). While an argument could be made that there's nothing wrong with small buttons, there could be an equally strong argument about why small buttons suck.
    You can change the size of the buttons - there is anything between "small" and "huge". Also the borders can be adjusted.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daktyl198
    replied
    Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
    We all know that design is not something which we can objectively can call pretty. I think Oxygen is still quite a good style and the fact that I can still stand it shows that it is well done.

    Why not revamp it? Let's turn the question around: why revamp it? Yes there are people who don't like it, yes there are people who don't like any possible replacement. So what would we gain from it? Instead of people complaining how ugly Oxygen is, we would get people complaining about that the old style was much better. So why fix what isn't broken?

    And of course we would like to have more designers and people who want to work on styles.
    I see your point. Thanks for answering

    Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    I'm not sure if you're aware of how the KDE themes work. It's very modularised. In general, Oxygen stands for several pieces: Oxygen window decorations (haven't seen anyone complaining about those, aside from that they could be made transparent, which is what air-oxygen gives), Oxygen cursors (they are a bit bulky, admittedly), Oxygen icons (they look wonderful in my opinion), Oxygen widgets (again, haven't seen any complaints about it) and Oxygen colour theme (which is they grey one that people tend to not like, but it's trivial to change it, for instance I use the Glacier theme which is cool blue). There is also the Air Plasma theme, which I also find very beautiful, and it's not even called "Oxygen". All of these components can be swapped out very easily, there is even an integrated theme downloader for all these components (except widgets).

    So while I agree that a better colour scheme could be used, that by far doesn't mean that there is something wrong with "Oxygen", because the rest is just fine. Also, the colour schemes are something the distros should be concerned with (openSUSE, for instance, ships with a custom colour and Plasma theme, although I don't like the fact that the two don't really match up well), not KDE base.
    Ah, it's not just the color scheme I was complaining about. Here's some other things which I personally (there's that word again... :P) don't like:
    - The window decorations were tiny on my 720p screen, so I don't want to think about what they'd be like on my new 1080p screen (which isn't all that much bigger physical-size wise). While an argument could be made that there's nothing wrong with small buttons, there could be an equally strong argument about why small buttons suck.
    - The color scheme (the blue is fine and dandy, it's just the grey that gets on my nerves for some reason...)
    - The padding. This is a bit of a more hard to explain thing for me (I'm not very good at explaining things) but I think the padding is the worst part of it :/
    The padding things leads me into another question about whether the padding/size stuff (especially in applications) can even be changed by themes like it can in GTK-based stuff.

    The things I like:
    - The icons
    - The Widgets
    - The cursor. I like the cursor quite a bit, actually... (/me goes off to see if he can't download just the cursor and use it on Cinnamon...)

    tl/dr; It's all opinions when it comes to design, and while there's always room to discuss improvements, almost all "improvements" will be seen as regressions by some.

    Leave a comment:


  • valeriodean
    replied
    Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
    Real question here: why is Oxygen the default theme? I personally find it very ugly for such a... supposed-to-be pretty DE. Very mid-90s grey and such...
    (I've also seen articles about Oxygen actually slowing KDE down based on how it handles Icons or some crap that I am not so willing to believe...)

    Why not revamp Oxygen or create a new theme altogether to go with the KF5 refresh?
    The problem exists only if you are locked on a specific configuration/design and you don't like it. But until you are free to download a different theme (or building a new one if you are capable of) there is no problem at all.
    As Martin has already explained, there isn't a single theme that can satisfy everyone, it is simple a no-win scenario.
    What the developers can do is be sure that the theme is configurable/changable.

    Leave a comment:


  • GreatEmerald
    replied
    Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
    Real question here: why is Oxygen the default theme? I personally find it very ugly for such a... supposed-to-be pretty DE. Very mid-90s grey and such...
    (I've also seen articles about Oxygen actually slowing KDE down based on how it handles Icons or some crap that I am not so willing to believe...)

    Why not revamp Oxygen or create a new theme altogether to go with the KF5 refresh?
    I'm not sure if you're aware of how the KDE themes work. It's very modularised. In general, Oxygen stands for several pieces: Oxygen window decorations (haven't seen anyone complaining about those, aside from that they could be made transparent, which is what air-oxygen gives), Oxygen cursors (they are a bit bulky, admittedly), Oxygen icons (they look wonderful in my opinion), Oxygen widgets (again, haven't seen any complaints about it) and Oxygen colour theme (which is they grey one that people tend to not like, but it's trivial to change it, for instance I use the Glacier theme which is cool blue). There is also the Air Plasma theme, which I also find very beautiful, and it's not even called "Oxygen". All of these components can be swapped out very easily, there is even an integrated theme downloader for all these components (except widgets).

    So while I agree that a better colour scheme could be used, that by far doesn't mean that there is something wrong with "Oxygen", because the rest is just fine. Also, the colour schemes are something the distros should be concerned with (openSUSE, for instance, ships with a custom colour and Plasma theme, although I don't like the fact that the two don't really match up well), not KDE base.

    Leave a comment:

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