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  • #31
    Originally posted by faildozer View Post
    I am extremely thankful that KDE Frameworks 5 is going to be way more modular. I personally love Cinnamon and LXDE as my primary desktop environment, but as an artist I really like Krita, but downloading and installing Krita pulls in all of KDE, which has always been way more bloat than desired. Hopefully this will help things out a whole lot and make it easier to set up my workspace with the least amount of redundancy and dependencies.
    Even right now Krita shouldn't pull in lots of dependencies. It should only be calligra libs and kde libs, but not the desktop or anything like that. In such cases it might help to disable recommends during the install.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
      oh that sounds very broken. There should be hardly any visual difference (Oxygen is pretty much unchanged) and KWin and Plasma shouldn't crash (I use both on my work system full-time).
      Real question here: why is Oxygen the default theme? I personally find it very ugly for such a... supposed-to-be pretty DE. Very mid-90s grey and such...
      (I've also seen articles about Oxygen actually slowing KDE down based on how it handles Icons or some crap that I am not so willing to believe...)

      Why not revamp Oxygen or create a new theme altogether to go with the KF5 refresh?

      Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
      Even right now Krita shouldn't pull in lots of dependencies. It should only be calligra libs and kde libs, but not the desktop or anything like that. In such cases it might help to disable recommends during the install.
      Installing Konversation (the only IRC client I will use at this point) has a similar problem of pulling in what seems to be a very, very large portion of KDE libs... I hope that gets sorted out as well

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
        Real question here: why is Oxygen the default theme? I personally find it very ugly for such a... supposed-to-be pretty DE. Very mid-90s grey and such...
        (I've also seen articles about Oxygen actually slowing KDE down based on how it handles Icons or some crap that I am not so willing to believe...)

        Why not revamp Oxygen or create a new theme altogether to go with the KF5 refresh?
        We all know that design is not something which we can objectively can call pretty. I think Oxygen is still quite a good style and the fact that I can still stand it shows that it is well done.

        Why not revamp it? Let's turn the question around: why revamp it? Yes there are people who don't like it, yes there are people who don't like any possible replacement. So what would we gain from it? Instead of people complaining how ugly Oxygen is, we would get people complaining about that the old style was much better. So why fix what isn't broken?

        And of course we would like to have more designers and people who want to work on styles.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
          Real question here: why is Oxygen the default theme? I personally find it very ugly for such a... supposed-to-be pretty DE. Very mid-90s grey and such...
          (I've also seen articles about Oxygen actually slowing KDE down based on how it handles Icons or some crap that I am not so willing to believe...)

          Why not revamp Oxygen or create a new theme altogether to go with the KF5 refresh?
          I'm not sure if you're aware of how the KDE themes work. It's very modularised. In general, Oxygen stands for several pieces: Oxygen window decorations (haven't seen anyone complaining about those, aside from that they could be made transparent, which is what air-oxygen gives), Oxygen cursors (they are a bit bulky, admittedly), Oxygen icons (they look wonderful in my opinion), Oxygen widgets (again, haven't seen any complaints about it) and Oxygen colour theme (which is they grey one that people tend to not like, but it's trivial to change it, for instance I use the Glacier theme which is cool blue). There is also the Air Plasma theme, which I also find very beautiful, and it's not even called "Oxygen". All of these components can be swapped out very easily, there is even an integrated theme downloader for all these components (except widgets).

          So while I agree that a better colour scheme could be used, that by far doesn't mean that there is something wrong with "Oxygen", because the rest is just fine. Also, the colour schemes are something the distros should be concerned with (openSUSE, for instance, ships with a custom colour and Plasma theme, although I don't like the fact that the two don't really match up well), not KDE base.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
            Real question here: why is Oxygen the default theme? I personally find it very ugly for such a... supposed-to-be pretty DE. Very mid-90s grey and such...
            (I've also seen articles about Oxygen actually slowing KDE down based on how it handles Icons or some crap that I am not so willing to believe...)

            Why not revamp Oxygen or create a new theme altogether to go with the KF5 refresh?
            The problem exists only if you are locked on a specific configuration/design and you don't like it. But until you are free to download a different theme (or building a new one if you are capable of) there is no problem at all.
            As Martin has already explained, there isn't a single theme that can satisfy everyone, it is simple a no-win scenario.
            What the developers can do is be sure that the theme is configurable/changable.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
              We all know that design is not something which we can objectively can call pretty. I think Oxygen is still quite a good style and the fact that I can still stand it shows that it is well done.

              Why not revamp it? Let's turn the question around: why revamp it? Yes there are people who don't like it, yes there are people who don't like any possible replacement. So what would we gain from it? Instead of people complaining how ugly Oxygen is, we would get people complaining about that the old style was much better. So why fix what isn't broken?

              And of course we would like to have more designers and people who want to work on styles.
              I see your point. Thanks for answering

              Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
              I'm not sure if you're aware of how the KDE themes work. It's very modularised. In general, Oxygen stands for several pieces: Oxygen window decorations (haven't seen anyone complaining about those, aside from that they could be made transparent, which is what air-oxygen gives), Oxygen cursors (they are a bit bulky, admittedly), Oxygen icons (they look wonderful in my opinion), Oxygen widgets (again, haven't seen any complaints about it) and Oxygen colour theme (which is they grey one that people tend to not like, but it's trivial to change it, for instance I use the Glacier theme which is cool blue). There is also the Air Plasma theme, which I also find very beautiful, and it's not even called "Oxygen". All of these components can be swapped out very easily, there is even an integrated theme downloader for all these components (except widgets).

              So while I agree that a better colour scheme could be used, that by far doesn't mean that there is something wrong with "Oxygen", because the rest is just fine. Also, the colour schemes are something the distros should be concerned with (openSUSE, for instance, ships with a custom colour and Plasma theme, although I don't like the fact that the two don't really match up well), not KDE base.
              Ah, it's not just the color scheme I was complaining about. Here's some other things which I personally (there's that word again... :P) don't like:
              - The window decorations were tiny on my 720p screen, so I don't want to think about what they'd be like on my new 1080p screen (which isn't all that much bigger physical-size wise). While an argument could be made that there's nothing wrong with small buttons, there could be an equally strong argument about why small buttons suck.
              - The color scheme (the blue is fine and dandy, it's just the grey that gets on my nerves for some reason...)
              - The padding. This is a bit of a more hard to explain thing for me (I'm not very good at explaining things) but I think the padding is the worst part of it :/
              The padding things leads me into another question about whether the padding/size stuff (especially in applications) can even be changed by themes like it can in GTK-based stuff.

              The things I like:
              - The icons
              - The Widgets
              - The cursor. I like the cursor quite a bit, actually... (/me goes off to see if he can't download just the cursor and use it on Cinnamon...)

              tl/dr; It's all opinions when it comes to design, and while there's always room to discuss improvements, almost all "improvements" will be seen as regressions by some.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
                The window decorations were tiny on my 720p screen, so I don't want to think about what they'd be like on my new 1080p screen (which isn't all that much bigger physical-size wise). While an argument could be made that there's nothing wrong with small buttons, there could be an equally strong argument about why small buttons suck.
                You can change the size of the buttons - there is anything between "small" and "huge". Also the borders can be adjusted.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
                  Ah, it's not just the color scheme I was complaining about. Here's some other things which I personally (there's that word again... :P) don't like:
                  - The window decorations were tiny on my 720p screen, so I don't want to think about what they'd be like on my new 1080p screen (which isn't all that much bigger physical-size wise). While an argument could be made that there's nothing wrong with small buttons, there could be an equally strong argument about why small buttons suck.
                  - The color scheme (the blue is fine and dandy, it's just the grey that gets on my nerves for some reason...)
                  - The padding. This is a bit of a more hard to explain thing for me (I'm not very good at explaining things) but I think the padding is the worst part of it :/
                  The padding things leads me into another question about whether the padding/size stuff (especially in applications) can even be changed by themes like it can in GTK-based stuff.
                  Yes it can. Both the widgets and the window decorations are very customisable. I always set the window control buttons to be a bit bigger than default, too.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
                    We all know that design is not something which we can objectively can call pretty. I think Oxygen is still quite a good style and the fact that I can still stand it shows that it is well done.

                    Why not revamp it? Let's turn the question around: why revamp it? Yes there are people who don't like it, yes there are people who don't like any possible replacement. So what would we gain from it? Instead of people complaining how ugly Oxygen is, we would get people complaining about that the old style was much better. So why fix what isn't broken?

                    And of course we would like to have more designers and people who want to work on styles.
                    I like both the Oxygen widget set and the Oxygen window decorations and use them always. But the only thing that should really change is the default of having the blue active window glow enabled. That's really the very first thing I turn off after logging into a fresh account.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by mgraesslin View Post
                      If you want to work with it, please let me know. I will probably become the maintainer of KWindowSystem and have some plans for it to make it completely runtime selection.
                      I found a dummy backend for kwindowsystem in a search http://web.archiveorange.com/archive...qujHcjXHpr3Yg6, that was added in early 2012. I had to modify it a bit, but it seems that it was officially removed... I think looking at the git log, it was removed sometime in June 2013.

                      I don't know why it was removed, I didn't test it in runtime, I had to make minor tweaks to other frameworks. I have 57/57 building without X, with a few tweaks, all of them are in this SVN folder. Only one Framework that depends on X in ldd is kdewebkit, because it's linked into qtwebkit.
                      http://rebeccablackos.svn.sourceforg...kdeframeworks/

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