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Using KWin To Power Other Non-KDE Linux Desktops

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  • phoronix
    started a topic Using KWin To Power Other Non-KDE Linux Desktops

    Using KWin To Power Other Non-KDE Linux Desktops

    Phoronix: Using KWin To Power Other Non-KDE Linux Desktops

    For those interested in ditching Compiz or other window managers in favor of KDE's KWin, it is actually possible to do so and use KWin on your favorite non-KDE desktop...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTUyNzk

  • TheBlackCat
    replied
    Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
    i3 supports floating windows (so it can be used as conventional WM, though that doesn't make much sense), events are indeed limited by default to "window opens", but this can be extended, AFAIK. I never noticed lag, even with complicated configurations.

    Anyways, i3 was just an example, because that is the WM I know best. I doubt that there aren't WMs with the same capabilities in the stacking WM croud.
    My point is that it doesn't have close to all the capabilities of kwin, even ignoring all the compositing-related stuff (which again will be a requirement on wayland). kwin is "heavier" because it does a lot more, is much more flexible, is much more extensible, and the stuff that is i3 also has is much easier to handle in kwin (for example a gui for handling window-specific rules, the ability to download scripts for you off the web, or scripts being through a real API rather than relying on special-purpose IPC and bash). And those capabilities are exactly why someone would want to use kwin.

    Now if you could point out a window manager that actually has the same capabilities as kwin but is lighter-weight than your argument would be valid, someone would probably want to use that over kwin. But i3 is not it, and a stacking window manager with the same capabilities as i3 would also not be it even it existed.

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  • Vim_User
    replied
    Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
    As far as I can find, i3 wm is a dedicated tiling window manager. This at its core makes it much, much, much less flexible than kwin (which can be tiling but isn't required to be). Also, because it is a tiling window manager, there is much less it has to do, so of course it uses less resources. That also means that its scripting interface is extremely limited compared to kwin's. Further, it doesn't seem to have a mechanism to trigger scripts on particular events, rather than just polling (which is an extremely wasteful and likely laggy approach especially since "scripting" seems to be handled by an IPC rather than integrated directly into the wm like with kwin). So there is no way you can write a script that turns w3 into a conventional wm, unlike kwin where the scripting interface for kwin is powerful enough to allow tiling to be implemented as a script.
    i3 supports floating windows (so it can be used as conventional WM, though that doesn't make much sense), events are indeed limited by default to "window opens", but this can be extended, AFAIK. I never noticed lag, even with complicated configurations.

    Anyways, i3 was just an example, because that is the WM I know best. I doubt that there aren't WMs with the same capabilities in the stacking WM croud.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheBlackCat
    replied
    Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
    All of that do I have already with the i3 WM, but with a lot less resource usage, so I wouldn't see that as advantage, but it is of course to each its own.
    It is just that I see no compelling reason to use Kwin instead of one of the other WMs.
    As far as I can find, i3 wm is a dedicated tiling window manager. This at its core makes it much, much, much less flexible than kwin (which can be tiling but isn't required to be). Also, because it is a tiling window manager, there is much less it has to do, so of course it uses less resources. That also means that its scripting interface is extremely limited compared to kwin's. Further, it doesn't seem to have a mechanism to trigger scripts on particular events, rather than just polling (which is an extremely wasteful and likely laggy approach especially since "scripting" seems to be handled by an IPC rather than integrated directly into the wm like with kwin). So there is no way you can write a script that turns w3 into a conventional wm, unlike kwin where the scripting interface for kwin is powerful enough to allow tiling to be implemented as a script.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vim_User
    replied
    Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
    But beyond that, kwin offers a lot. Scripting, fine-grained control of the behavior of individual windows, window and application-specific rules and overrides, advanced focus behavior control and protection, window tabbing, and tiling. Plus it has the advantage that it is well-tested and widely-used, which saves the work of making and maintaining their own window manager. Further, thinks like desktop effects are modular so they can be easily stripped out.
    All of that do I have already with the i3 WM, but with a lot less resource usage, so I wouldn't see that as advantage, but it is of course to each its own.
    It is just that I see no compelling reason to use Kwin instead of one of the other WMs.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheBlackCat
    replied
    Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
    Seriously, people using WMs like Openbox instead of KDE usually do that because they don't need and/or want fancy effects or compositing (possibly due to hardware restrictions, possibly due to personal taste). What has Kwin to offer for those people that they should consider a switch?
    There are no advantages that I can see.
    If you are using Wayland, you are using compositing. So anyone wanting to use Wayland in the future is going to need a compositing window manager.

    But beyond that, kwin offers a lot. Scripting, fine-grained control of the behavior of individual windows, window and application-specific rules and overrides, advanced focus behavior control and protection, window tabbing, and tiling. Plus it has the advantage that it is well-tested and widely-used, which saves the work of making and maintaining their own window manager. Further, thinks like desktop effects are modular so they can be easily stripped out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vim_User
    replied
    Originally posted by Panix View Post
    I want a broken, buggy POS to power my other desktop, okay, yeah... lol
    I guess you are a Gnome user?

    Seriously, people using WMs like Openbox instead of KDE usually do that because they don't need and/or want fancy effects or compositing (possibly due to hardware restrictions, possibly due to personal taste). What has Kwin to offer for those people that they should consider a switch?
    There are no advantages that I can see.

    Leave a comment:


  • nachoig
    replied
    KWin is the main reason which I'm not using KDE Plasma Workspaces anymore. In my case (GeForce GT 630 with nVidia proprietary driver0, KWin results in a lot of tearing in games, videos and in its effects, it has a poor performance and it is very buggy. So, as compositing window manager, it's a bad solution for me. I prefer to use Mutter in Plasma Workspackes rather than KWin.

    And this is list of the packges to install together with KWin in openSUSE (excluding the recommended packages).

    Code:
    appmenu-qt cln kactivities4 kde4-filesystem kde4-kgreeter-plugins kdebase4-runtime kdebase4-runtime-branding-openSUSE kdebase4-workspace 
      kdebase4-workspace-branding-openSUSE kdebase4-workspace-ksysguardd kdebase4-workspace-liboxygenstyle kdelibs4 kdelibs4-branding-openSUSE 
      kdelibs4-core kdepimlibs4 kscreen ksplashx-branding-openSUSE kwin libakonadi4 libakonadiprotocolinternals1 libattica0_4 libdbusmenu-qt2 
      libdmtx0 libepub0 libgps20 libkactivities6 libkde4 libkdecore4 libkdepimlibs4 libkscreen libkscreen1 libksuseinstall1 libphonon4 
      libpolkit-qt-1-1 libpoppler-qt4-4 libprison0 libqalculate5 libqca2 libqimageblitz4 libqjson0 libqt4-qt3support libsoprano4 libssh4 
      libstrigi0 libwayland-egl1 libxcb-composite0 libxcb-damage0 libxcb-image0 libxcb-keysyms1 libxcb-randr0 libxcb-shape0 libxcb-sync0 
      libxcb-xtest0 libzip2 nepomuk-core oxygen-icon-theme polkit-kde-agent-1 shared-desktop-ontologies soprano soprano-backend-redland 
      susegreeter-branding-openSUSE

    Leave a comment:


  • Panix
    replied
    I want a broken, buggy POS to power my other desktop, okay, yeah... lol

    Leave a comment:


  • molecule-eye
    replied
    Originally posted by jmcharron View Post
    That's funny because I just started using kde4 over kde3.5 with the new OpenSuSE 13.1 release. Besides how settings are handled and having to install stealth cashew, I'm really impressed with how smooth and stable everything runs on my ThinkPad with a i5/HD4000. I still miss my old 3.5 but it is really starting to show it's age.
    Welcome to the 21st century! Kde 4 should be a way better experience on that harwadre that 3.5.

    Leave a comment:

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