Originally posted by Kivada
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Lightworks Linux Beta Is Finally Public
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Originally posted by brosis View PostSo you call me FOSStard, eh? Then we have nothing to discuss, because you use this platform ONLY because it fits your needs and you are okay to accept crap. Next day windows performs better, I see your ass installing it. Even talking to you is failed investment, because your relate to proprietary in exact same matter. For me Openshot fits the spot, it isn't proprietary so obviously your trolling is pointless. Have fun with your "higher standard", and (I borrow this, courtesy of Torvalds) "Fuck you".
Windows? Dude, i haven't had Windows installed on ANY of my own hardware for well over 10 years (probably closer to 15). It's great to see that you 'have me figured out' so well... lol. (you fucking FOSSTARD moron). I've also been using Linux for over a decade. I'm also a (long time) Mac user, but probably won't buy another after this one -> because of closed apps like VMware and Lightworks will allow me to drop MacOSX. So yeah, you're black and white approach to software to be short-sided and laughable.
and you don't get to represent my position, asshole - I *know* that FOSS is going to win in the long run (and largely already has!), so yes, a pragmatic approach is better than your moronic FOSStard mentality; that is allowing room for both and using whatever works best. (this also allows users (like myslef) and/or potential migrate'rs to linux do the same).
...and as i said - use whatever software you like, if Openshot fits your needs - *great*. (that just means it's the tool for you!). That in fact just validates my point on using whatever tools (regardless of closed vs. open) that best fits the job. But apparently, you're too thick in the skull to get that... but Openshot does not fit mine, so why the fuck should i use it? -> so i can be a FOSStard like you?
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Originally posted by ninez View Postno, dude - that was hilarious and needed to be pointed out....lol. funny stuff. ...and it is not relevant to Lightworks (kde integration), since that is a complete non-issue.
Wow, what a great feature (and you said Kdenlive is stable - dude, that's not stability - that's working around *instability* - i don't have those hassles in lightworks.
Are you positive this guy is using Kdenlive in his professional gigs / for pay...because i'm not really.
lol -> You _honestly_ think installing Ubuntu or Fedora vs. Compiling Kdenlive is easier??? dude, i can download from git / compile and install with *one command*.... you are talking CRAZY TALK
So Kdenlive is more pro-grade in your opinion
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Originally posted by ninez View PostI like how FOSStards make up any excuse as to why their software is so much better, when it _obviously_ is inferior in these kinds of cases. I also find it funny when FOSStards crap all over companies who are actually trying to move to the platform (which is a positive thing) - bringing tools which do not exist (in the same quality), who may actually want to use a Linux Desktop but can't since the tools they need, may not even exist. these same tards cry over expectations they have, when no one even promised them anything to begin with....Kdenlive may have potential - but it is years and years away from being a viable solution for people used to a higher standard. As far as, what code they release - we don't have that information, but i think they will end up pushing the majority of their code - they probably just won't be able to get around certain things - which they may not own the IP for. (which is understandable and acceptable, imo).
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Originally posted by brosis View PostI like how people climb on top of binary paid bullshit and start throwing shoes at floss alternatives..
Opensourcing lightworks is BLUFF. Its just a another proprietary lier. AMD example should have taught you something - they went so far and rewrote the open driver from scratch.
Even if code drop happens, it will be just unrelevant cut from somewhere, that they "are allowed to" release.
but time will tell, on that.
Originally posted by brosis View PostKDEnlive and various open editors are not supporting codecs, because they don't have nor want to deal with license issues. They use either gstreamer or dynamically bind themself to ffmpeg and likes.
In order to claim codec support, one should pay license fees per copy. And this is only possible if the software is commercial (paid per copy).
This aspect doesn't make opensource software any less professional. Professional means it works for production, nothing more.
Originally posted by brosis View PostNinez, weren't you compiling kernel recently for less latency? Well, you can forget that customization level with Lightworks, its only possible with KDEnlive or same.
Originally posted by brosis View PostI'd better donate twice to KDEnlive than to buy this, I learned from past that investing in closed source production software just leads to wasted money. The project that controls how often can you use it, depending on amount you paid, is not my piece of cake. Even if KDEnlive fails, its codebase will still be able for restart or reuse in similar projects.
I think they actually made a reasonable compromise; You pay for what you want/need (that they *also* have to pay for too) and the rest is free. You think they won't release source code - but what if they do??? -> WOW, what a terrible company - they've taken 20+ years of their hardwork and innovations and are providing it for nearly free, only charging for things that they can't distribute for free... Evil i tell you, EVIL!! lololol.
Originally posted by brosis View PostI mean, piece by piece we are responsible for what software we get. Personally, I don't want to be part of opencore, drm, closed source scheme. Up to you to decide.Last edited by ninez; 01 May 2013, 09:40 PM.
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I like how people climb on top of binary paid bullshit and start throwing shoes at floss alternatives...
Opensourcing lightworks is BLUFF. Its just a another proprietary lier. AMD example should have taught you something - they went so far and rewrote the open driver from scratch.
Even if code drop happens, it will be just unrelevant cut from somewhere, that they "are allowed to" release.
KDEnlive and various open editors are not supporting codecs, because they don't have nor want to deal with license issues. They use either gstreamer or dynamically bind themself to ffmpeg and likes.
In order to claim codec support, one should pay license fees per copy. And this is only possible if the software is commercial (paid per copy).
This aspect doesn't make opensource software any less professional. Professional means it works for production, nothing more.
Ninez, weren't you compiling kernel recently for less latency? Well, you can forget that customization level with Lightworks, its only possible with KDEnlive or same.
I'd better donate twice to KDEnlive than to buy this, I learned from past that investing in closed source production software just leads to wasted money. The project that controls how often can you use it, depending on amount you paid, is not my piece of cake. Even if KDEnlive fails, its codebase will still be able for restart or reuse in similar projects.
I mean, piece by piece we are responsible for what software we get. Personally, I don't want to be part of opencore, drm, closed source scheme. Up to you to decide.
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Originally posted by Del_ View PostNo reason for that tone. I may have misread you, I got the impression you thought lightworks looked more professional from the esthetic side. In any case, KDE integration is nothing to sneeze at as it enables colour profiles for the user interface. Most professional editors seem to like having their favourtite dark theme when doing colour correction, so it actually is relevant.
Originally posted by Del_ View PostYou can configure the layout in kdenlive to your hearts content, and yes you can save multiple layouts. Qt is top notch, and kdenlive takes good advantage of it. I have no idea where you get this out-burst from. Yes, I (and many others) find kdenlive intuitive. It is also quite stable these days, when was the last time you tested it?
Originally posted by Del_ View PostNo, I haven't, and by the look of it so far I will not spend the time doing it. I may have a look at some youtube clips to get a feeling for it though. Give me a ppa, and I will test it. Registering for a product that was promised as open source is out of the question for me.
so, editshare is again lying, while kdenlive is being modest? Not sure exactly what you want to prove. Fact is, kdenlive takes just about any format you can throw at it, have a look at first point under Troubleshooting:http://userbase.kde.org/Kdenlive/Man...ommon_Problems
However, I have experienced that some formats can cause instabilities (which may be related to ffmpeg or libav), a simple solution is to convert everything to lossless matroska before editing, gives you a stable experience also on pesky formats.
(regarding formats) so basically, i am to jump through extra hoops just to import my data, because in kdenlive because i may suffer instabilities otherwise (with certain formats).... Wow, what a great feature (and you said Kdenlive is stable - dude, that's not stability - that's working around *instability* - i don't have those hassles in lightworks.
Originally posted by Del_ View PostPlease do not drop to this level of discussion. I know several people use kdenlive professionally. The article I linked to you above, this one: http://opensource.com/life/11/11/introduction-kdenlive is written by one professional editor.
No, kdenlive is still not at version 1.0, and was no competition to professional tools a couple of years ago. A lot has happened the last years though, so today I believe a number of professional editors can use kdenlive for their needs.
Originally posted by Seth from ArticleSeth Kenlon is an independent multimedia artist, free culture advocate, and UNIX geek. He is one of the maintainers of the Slackware-based multimedia production project, http://slackermedia.info
Originally posted by Del_ View PostWell one of many examples where you obviously are not up to speed with current state of kdenlive. Not saying you will like kdenlive better than lightworks mind you, so no reason to go overboard with ad-hominems over my comment. If you feel like bashing kdenlive with some up-to-date knowledge, you certainly do not need to compile anything. Install latest ubuntu or fedora does the trick, for both distributions you will also find packages snapshots right from the press if you look for it (hint: https://launchpad.net/~sunab/+archive/kdenlive-release )
lol -> You _honestly_ think installing Ubuntu or Fedora vs. Compiling Kdenlive is easier??? dude, i can download from git / compile and install with *one command*.... you are talking CRAZY TALK
Originally posted by Del_ View PostThat is indeed missing, but I would be surprised if it is still missing in a years time. In any case, there is a python script available to convert kdenlive project to EDL (how well it works I don't know):
(look at kdenparse link)
Kdenlive < Lightworks. end of story....
Originally posted by Del_ View PostPlease stop spouting this nonsense. It is simply not true. If you like alternatives better that is fine, but bashing open projects with such inaccuracy is very bad manners. Development is arguably fast, and on a number of accounts it arguable competes well with professional solutions.Last edited by ninez; 01 May 2013, 07:57 PM.
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Luke, have you tested OpenGL play back in Kdenlive? (You need to enable it in settings) If you have, please share what problems you see.
Originally posted by ninez View PostWho would have thought -an app called KDEnlive, integrates into KDE well...omfg..lmfao (at you).
And Lightwork's layout - isn't a subjective experience. it is WAY more organized than Kdenlive - being able to save all of my workspaces layouts is awesome.
Out of curiousity - are you / have you run Lightworks, on your machine? (just curious, based on your response)...
-> hard pressed, or *lazy and don't care?* (it's the latter). that's exactly why i told you to *go look for yourself*... but i should note: even on Kdenlive's website, it mentions this:
where as EditShare mentions this;
However, I have experienced that some formats can cause instabilities (which may be related to ffmpeg or libav), a simple solution is to convert everything to lossless matroska before editing, gives you a stable experience also on pesky formats.
Do you care to explain why NOBODY is using Kdenlive professionally???
- by your logic shouldn't almost everyone be using Kdenlive?
...And the multi-camera stuff was one example, fyi. I don't feel like compiling Kdenlive
It's also funny how you go on about how Kdenlive is stacking up against the proprietary solutions, yet i don't see any integration / interoperability between Kdenlive and (film/broadcasting) industry standards, such as storage solutions, nor do i see much interoperability between other NLVEs... Does Kdenlive offer 'project sharing' at the level that Lightworks does??
(look at kdenparse link)
Development is slow, it's unpolished (especially, if NOT running KDE) and it doesn't stack up against professional solutions.
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Lightworks in unsuited for my needs, where open source is used for security reasons
I have been using Kdenlive since 2007. I have to handle video from activist events where raw clips are very sensitive and must be stored under heavy-duty encryption. As a result, I cannot allow any closed-source binary that is in contact with the external network to be in any pathway traveled by these files, nor by the boot-time encryption password. I don't even use proprietary video drivers these days, though they could be tested by running Wireshark with and without them to verify that they do not go online with any hidden activity. A video editor that requires a connection to the Internet and is a closed binary (or just beyond my own understanding!) is not safe for this kind of specialized work. Just to test Lightworks I would have to put it on a dedicated drive with a dedicated copy of my OS and not encrypted. I would also have to create safe raw files for testing, and not with my AVCHD camera or Lightworks would lose the ability to read them after the 7 day "pro" trial period expired.
I see the issue with how Lightworks is distributed as a market segmentation issue. OK, CBS, CNN et all would fear they cannot get away with using open source ffmpeg/avconv to handle formats encumbered in the US and Japan by software patents. That means they CAN'T use Kdenlive, which is the video editor I am familiar with and for that reason compare all others against. On the other hand, doing unpaid video work, I would not consider using pay software when free and open source versions are available(no matter how buggy, I'd rather patch and workaround than pay), and certainly would not allow a program connected to the Internet to access my raw and unchecked video clips. The free version of Lightworks can't read AVCHD, which small 1080p cameras produce. which means I can't use it even if a later open source release strips out the activation requirement and security issue.
All this means Lightworks in inappropriate for non-monetized video made from security-sensitive clips, and Kdenlive is and will remain inappropriate for high-dollar commercial video in the few countries where MPEG-LA can play their patent games, at least until those patents expire and no new patented codecs arise. They are two different products, written by two different kinds of authors, for two different kinds of users. I was starting to sweat that if too many people abandoned Kdenlive, I would not be able to keep using it myself unless I was able to learn enough about the source code to mantain it myself, which would be a huge undertaking. I've already had to do that with the old Ubuntustudio GTK theme, and that is work enough when new versions of GTK break something.
My main worry was that Lightworks would pull people away from Kdenlive without really offering the same functionality in a free and offline version, but my guess is the separation between users of open-source ffmpeg/avconv and paid "legal" codecs will forcibly separate these userbases until H264 dies online and the last AVCHD camera dies of electromigration, or until the codec patents expire, whichever comes first. I would like to see Kdenlive pick up Shotcut's work in making openGL playback really work, and that direct shader language GPU compute, both of which are not in the MLT backend that Shotcut and Kdenlive both use. If that gets fully debugged, and Kdenlive gains the ability to play back a timeline full of night-camera color correction in full real time, that will be all I will ever need. GPU render would be nice, but some say only the Mercury engine, using the GPU for everything, can avoid giving back the gains in system ram/video ram memory transfers.
For that matter, I ran an experiment last year benchmarking an nvidia GTS450 with the blob (blacklisted against encryption password entries while X was running!) against AMD bulldozer FX-8150 overclocked to 4.5 GHX, using Blender from PPA on the "cycles" rendering engine. That uses openCL, and at that time would detect and use that GPU if asked. Only thing was, that FX-8150 beat the NvidiaGTS450 by a substantial margin, 20% at least, in identical openCL Cycles render tests of that huge auto dealer floor raytraced image. I now use an AMD HD6750 with Mesa (more trustworthy for my purpose), giving 60-70% of theoretical openGL performance.
On this kind of system, I wonder if Lightworks would be able to use the Mesa driver, and if so, would using it be enough to outrun the 8-core CPU for rendering anyway? If not, than Kdenlive needs only to get effects to play back in real time to be a "finished" video editor so far as I am concerned. Don't like the theme? Think it looks "unprofessional?" You can change it. I theme it to match my old-style "Ubuntustudio-legacy" GTK theme. I've got a screnshot of Lightworks running, I could probably make Kdenlive look like it if I had any reason to do so,.
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Originally posted by xeekei View PostThey still only supply an Ubuntu package, though. As long as they're doing that, Lightworks will be useless to me.
1. you need to extract lwks-11.1.H-amd64.deb
2. then extract data.tar.gz -> you need to place each folder's contents (from deb's 'data' into your own system folders (of the same name). (ie: /usr , /lib , etc)
3. then extract control.tar.gz -> inspect and run the commands from the postinst script (or just run postinst script, after placing all files from .deb into proper place in file-system).
4. open Lightworks / have your account info ready to sign in.
done.
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