Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Linux Group Files Complaint With EU Over SecureBoot

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #71
    Originally posted by brosis View Post
    ARM is becoming more and more relevant player after Intel+MS have nearly destroyed it.

    Soon, ARM will have 50% marketplace with x86 and be another hardware platform for personal computing.
    So you say. Then show me a proper ARM-based notebook or notebook suitable for actually doing real work (like compiling code or running CAD) and not just being a toy project that is being sold in huge numbers right now, and I don't mean the Raspberry Pi or the Arduino or the made-in-china netbooks that ship with a 700MHz processor running Android.

    Talk about breaking lock-in on ARM when it gets that anticipated 50% marketshare. And while you are at it, tell ARM to release their GPU driver code as well. Can't do that, can you?

    Comment


    • #72
      Originally posted by nullone View Post
      If we can CHOOSE what we prefer from the market, a responsive and smart market, then there will no complain.

      BUT, BUT, BUT, this market is money driven, and goes where can give it most money back with least risk and invest.

      You can call it a blind and greedy market.
      It is easily utilized by big players, not small fish who want a computer for use at their will or freedom or benefit with their awareness.

      We are no in a full-developed and open market yet.
      It is true what you say, however, people still have the choice to vote with their money. Now, if the majority of the people vote in favor of such technology and the way it's implemented, then there's little we can do other than try to open their eyes and inform them of the disadvantages and how these big companies are trying to rape them.
      But yelling at MS is the same as yelling at any other company that tries to be the biggest and more profitable. This is business, any company's main objective is to make money, what do you expect!? They would ban buying PCs in favor of renting them from MS if they could. It's normal, and users are the ones who must fight against it by not buying from them. Complaining will do nothing for you.

      I don't understand all these fights to see who's right or wrong. MS (and others) are trying to make money. Just do your part and don't buy from them if you don't like it. It's like buying a Justin Bieber CD and complaining that the music is bad and hurts your ears. Just don't buy it. What's so complicated?

      Comment


      • #73
        I suppose the Bieber analogy would go more like this: all CDs for sale are Bieber CDs, and all they play on radio is Bieber. Only some small pirate radio and people exchanging cassettes continue to resist, but you will have a hard time finding them, if you can find any near you at all.

        You still know there is some other music, but you cannot get it even with money.

        Comment


        • #74
          Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
          So you say. Then show me a proper ARM-based notebook or notebook suitable for actually doing real work (like compiling code or running CAD) and not just being a toy project that is being sold in huge numbers right now, and I don't mean the Raspberry Pi or the Arduino or the made-in-china netbooks that ship with a 700MHz processor running Android.

          Talk about breaking lock-in on ARM when it gets that anticipated 50% marketshare. And while you are at it, tell ARM to release their GPU driver code as well. Can't do that, can you?
          I don't think it'll hit 50%. But ARM is going to start expanding beyond embedded handhelds. AMD already has plans to make an Opteron branded ARM CPU. Whether it is succesfull or not is a matter for the future. If it is then you can bet Intel will do the same. and then it'll expand into workstations and then desktops.

          God only knows how far in the future this will be or how succesfull, but it will happen.

          Comment


          • #75
            Originally posted by juanrga View Post
            Partnership does not mean "Microsoft PCs" they are still Dell/HP PCs and "Microsoft-certified" does not mean "Microsoft-locked". Certification means that the PC will run Microsoft OS, not that it cannot run other OSs.
            Incorrect fallacy.
            The truth for OEM is: "You can agree, or you will die. Nobody is taking that choice from you."

            1) Certification means - accept ALL Microsoft requirements.
            Those who accept certification - get discount OEM OS price.
            Those who do not accept certification - get regular OS price.

            2) Regular OS price is much higher than discount OS price.

            3) 90% of PC come with windows preinstalled.
            95% of hardware vendors have special agreements to priority support microsoft.
            90% of the large software vendors write software for windows or using windows technology.
            90% of userbase is used to windows.

            4) 1+2+3 = if you disagree, your same solution is much pricer thanks to OS price and you are guaranteed out of the market.


            ---
            This is why Linux is not successful on desktop.

            If Linux would have 50% of desktop marketshare, this loop will not work.
            MS would not be able to push own standards from above.
            MS certification would be optional and hardly anyone would accept it. Because its essentially damaging customers and not improving their experience.

            But this cycle is very hard to break and requires major players to disagree with MS.

            Google, Valve - it all started recently, and this is why MS is pushing hard to make new users switch or try other OS EXTREMELY uncomfortable, and up to warranty invalidating(!).

            The habit (used to) approach is not enough anymore, so they invented the cycle agreements (partnerships) with hardware, software and OEM vendors. Those who disagree will be punished monetary.
            But due to recent actions of major software vendors and some softening of OEM vendors, they decided to make it a requirement to glue the OS to PC and make it extremely difficult to ditch.

            If this step is not so successful, they will modify the EULA or require additional condition to OEM EULA via Certification requirement, that those using any other OS than MS will loose warranty.
            Mark my words.
            ---

            And if you think its FUD, there is similar situation in printer market already: with Epson and its original cartridges.

            Inserting similar cartridge in Epson printer means damage of patents of cartridge design and connection. So its not possible.
            Inserting differently formed cartridge will require removal of the plastic clip on top of printing head, which will nullify the warranty, due to damaging construction of Epson printer.

            Comment


            • #76
              Originally posted by curaga View Post
              I suppose the Bieber analogy would go more like this: all CDs for sale are Bieber CDs, and all they play on radio is Bieber. Only some small pirate radio and people exchanging cassettes continue to resist, but you will have a hard time finding them, if you can find any near you at all.

              You still know there is some other music, but you cannot get it even with money.
              Right, don't buy any for a month. They'll go bankrupt and other ones will be given a chance. Natural evolution, if it's bad, it will cease existing because it will not survive the environment.

              Plus, there is currently plenty of choice. I have a new PC, and a new laptop, and both are running linux. No problems whatsoever.

              I also have a mobile phone, and it's an N9. And my previous one was a N900. And I was fully aware that I was sacrificing apps and maybe paying a little too much for what I was getting, but at least I wasn't feeding the ones I want to fight against.

              Comment


              • #77
                not the product, but the market

                Originally posted by mdias View Post
                It is true what you say, however, people still have the choice to vote with their money. Now, if the majority of the people vote in favor of such technology and the way it's implemented, then there's little we can do other than try to open their eyes and inform them of the disadvantages and how these big companies are trying to rape them.
                But yelling at MS is the same as yelling at any other company that tries to be the biggest and more profitable. This is business, any company's main objective is to make money, what do you expect!? They would ban buying PCs in favor of renting them from MS if they could. It's normal, and users are the ones who must fight against it by not buying from them. Complaining will do nothing for you.

                I don't understand all these fights to see who's right or wrong. MS (and others) are trying to make money. Just do your part and don't buy from them if you don't like it. It's like buying a Justin Bieber CD and complaining that the music is bad and hurts your ears. Just don't buy it. What's so complicated?
                I searched several pages back, and found this forum swallowed my reply silently.

                So let me put a shorter version here, and also as a reply to Sonadow's "business 101".
                Hope you can see this reply.

                We have no doubt about what a business is for, plus people have different tastes or methods to do it.

                We have argument about what a business shall not do and how shall business doers treat people.
                Most people, the mass and unawareness, do not know what they can do or do not cry out loudly when their benefit is or will be damaged.

                Big players know and utilize that, and give people an illusion that they have choices just like voters.

                Buying CD is not like putting CD into the channel. Product is not market.

                I care about public interest 101 and market protection 101.

                Comment


                • #78
                  Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                  I don't think it'll hit 50%. But ARM is going to start expanding beyond embedded handhelds. AMD already has plans to make an Opteron branded ARM CPU. Whether it is succesfull or not is a matter for the future. If it is then you can bet Intel will do the same. and then it'll expand into workstations and then desktops.

                  God only knows how far in the future this will be or how succesfull, but it will happen.
                  My point was to refute that person's claim that people don't like handcuffs because working with ARM hardware at this point of time is exactly like dealing with a handcuff with 100 different keyholes for 100 different keys. Because ARM has always been synonymous with embedded hardware, every licensee is going to have ARM chips with slightly modified instruction sets as opposed to the reference designs published by ARM.

                  Compound that with the fact that ARM hardware is typically embedded with other components such as wireless radios, GPUs, etc etc and you get a nightmare of an SoC that vastly differs from every other SoC released by other ARM licensees. Just look at Android as a good example: the operating system ROM has to be specially designed and built for specific phones because there is no 'super ROM' that can provide all the drivers needed for the ridiculous myraid of integrated components found in ARM-based SoCs. Add the fact that such drivers are binary only, not supported by the stock Linux kernel AND not even publicly available for download and you see where I'm coming from. So you can imagine the kind of hoo-ha that will happen if ARM makes it to desktops and notebook PCs in such state.

                  Marketshare can determine a lot of things, and the only way to push for such drivers of integrated hardware to be opened up is through market share. If ARM can even secure a 30% foothold in the desktop / notebook PC market, it will be much easier to pressure it (gently) and its licensee to play nice with the Linux kernel and free up their binary drivers for inclusion into the mainline kernel.
                  Last edited by Sonadow; 03-27-2013, 01:07 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #79
                    Originally posted by nullone View Post

                    I care about public interest 101 and market protection 101.
                    My reply to you will be this: the free market has no such thing called protection. Fundamental fact of economics.

                    You can other have a free market or a regulated market. Choose one.
                    Last edited by Sonadow; 03-27-2013, 01:10 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #80
                      Originally posted by RoboJ1M View Post
                      Is that really all you need to do? Inform the existing OS that you're about to replace it?

                      Actually brass tacks, if you buy a Windows 8 Secure booted up the wahoozie laptop what are the actual steps to install, say, Ubuntu.
                      That's got to be a common use case.

                      Forget the ethics for a moment.
                      Assume no contact with Microsoft or between Microsoft and Canonical.

                      What are the steps?
                      1) enter BIOS setup
                      2) disable secure boot

                      then, either:

                      3) disable UEFI boot / enable legacy boot
                      4) boot a normal MBR-style Linux installation image

                      or:

                      4) boot an EFI-enabled Linux installation image

                      I do this for work on a weekly basis, professionally.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X