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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by ciplogic View Post
    In fact they can! Patents are regardless of where the spec comes from! You can take GCC and you can make a GIMPLE (the internal language of GCC) to run on OpenCL, and yes, your implementation can be patent encumbered. A clean room implementation like Mono for example does not have issues with MS patents, but JavaScriptCore or WebKit can use some Apple patents (for example to work with automatic layout based on colons that are closer to the view of the phone). I hope you understand this.

    If Apple enforces these patents, you will not have a good browser experience on the future KDE Phone project (if it will ever exist). If you will use Mono, you may use the native browser on the phone and you will not have any issue as the issue does not lie in Mono's implementation.(Linux friendly Google may pay to Apple some money for this layouting in WebKit).
    You're making me even more sad, because you're comparing mono to webkit and thus your comment makes no sense. Write webkit equivalent in mono or make it run on OpenCL and you're comment is against you. Btw. what my native broweser will use? Some monokit?

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by ciplogic View Post
    I think you cut and paste and take any conclusion anyway.

    So Apple and MS are bad because they don't support Linux, so you have to embrace Novell and Xamarin as they supported Linux Desktop properly for a long long time (and they still do). Did I miss a meeting when I can see Novell Windows, instead of Novell Suse Linux.

    For a refresh: LLVM is mainly an Apple sponsored project. Still LLVM seems a good addition for Linux (and C based languages), and an open spec like C# doesn't seem to be good even is made to work great on Linux (like Mono does).

    Did I miss a meeting, do you think that aliens build the pyramids and also that Miguel wanted to make Linux a Microsoft project?
    No, strwaman. Xamarin doesn't support Linux, but tries to affect it with M$ patents and tech. Xamarin supports M$. Novel betrayed Linux in some part, but they're still far better than Xamarin, because Novell at least competes with M$ in enterprise. LLVM servers Linux well, but it's neither Apple's merit nor intention - it's a side effect. Like I said, it doesn't matter much in this case if something is open or not, but the thing that matters the most is what is the main support target. C# supports M$ and its Linux support that comes as a side effect of C# being, so called open spec is nothing compared to danger that it brings. Thus, Xamarin "supports" Linux to affect it with M$ tech, so in the end it supports M$.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
    Just wait, I'll bet his answer will be something along the lines of "DOESN'T MATTER THEY SUPPORT MICROSOFT AND THEY MUST DIE."
    Exactly and you're idiotic irony won't change reality.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by directhex View Post
    Does Xamarin get money from you writing a Gtk# app on Linux?
    I don't care and this doesn't matter. They get more attention and credit mostly goes to M$. Why do you expect I'll support anti Linux competition? It's dumb stupid. I recommend you to go to M$ and tell them they should drop c# crap and use Qt.

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  • ciplogic
    replied
    Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
    Is this community port still actively maintained? If so where can I get it? It would be nice to have that extra tool in my kit.
    The monodroid part (the old package) is not so actively developed (because is the wrapping part, that once done correctly you don't have to tune it over and over):
    https://github.com/mono/monodroid-bindings
    The runtime is still the same:
    https://github.com/mono/mono

    (there is nothing fancy in Android's port of Mono, look for user: spouliot that commits really often in MonoTouch or Mono for Android related fixes in the public repository)

    As for actively maintained, I think it isn't. In fact for Google's NaCl, Mono port is really not such of a port, but are instructions how to patch Mono source and to do a cross-compile. Who knows, maybe Xamarin will offer someday a Mono for NaCl

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  • directhex
    replied
    Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
    Is this community port still actively maintained? If so where can I get it? It would be nice to have that extra tool in my kit.
    It's not, no. It was done a while ago by Koushik Dutta, and was used to demonstrate how bad Dalvik was (Mono was 30x faster)

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  • Luke_Wolf
    replied
    Originally posted by ciplogic View Post
    In fact Mono's code (runtime and classes) is opensource. Mono was ported to Android by community (before it was MonoDroid then Mono for Android). What Xamarin gives to you is certainly a full package (that costs time to QA, integrate, etc.) and yes, I am sure that some parts are closed source. It was and is still the same in Qt.
    Is this community port still actively maintained? If so where can I get it? It would be nice to have that extra tool in my kit.

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  • ciplogic
    replied
    Originally posted by Del_ View Post
    (...)
    With regards to Mono, I may be mistaken, but it seems to me that the Android and IOS SDKs are only available through commercial licenses. These are todays two most important platforms for which Digia has made no attempt closing down the code. Instead Digia puts all their weight into getting a professional open stack for us covering all relevant platforms. Qt charts is basically the only problematic spot, and it is for historic reasons. Moreover, from my understanding Xamarin will not provide IDE at all for Android or IOS on linux. To me this is a clear sign that Xamarin is now a destructive force for linux.
    In fact Mono's code (runtime and classes) is opensource. Mono was ported to Android by community (before it was MonoDroid then Mono for Android). What Xamarin gives to you is certainly a full package (that costs time to QA, integrate, etc.) and yes, I am sure that some parts are closed source. It was and is still the same in Qt.

    As you seem to understand that most companies give a mixed source (some OSS some commercial), what Linux benefit are the bits that get accessible into Linux. Based on this logic, Xamarin (or Novell before) contributed millions of line of code more than NVidia and if you use Banshee music player you will benefit directly from them.

    The new IDE from Xamarin is built on top of MonoDevelop, so the main thing to do in MonoDevelop is to be fixed. It will fix also the Xamarin's IDE, and that's really fine, I think. When Linux or GCC is improved, both free (as source and freedoms) and commercial software runs better in Linux.

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  • Del_
    replied
    Originally posted by directhex View Post
    If you print on Linux you're using CUPS, an Apple project.

    Or look at Webkit, whose biggest contributors are Apple and Google. Is that project good or evil? Why? Why not?
    Last time I checked the history Apple needed to be forced to release webkit. The only reason was that webkit was a (hostile) khtml fork, and hence licensed under GPL. Since then it seems Apple has been on a crusade to destroy everything GPL. Re-implementing Samba, drawing deverlopers away from GCC, banning GPL software from all IOS devices. The Apple we see to day was built on the very same GPL software they now try to ruin. It makes me incredibly sad to see the VLC project go through the tedious work of relicensing just to get into the app store.

    To make things worse, I see supporters of open software misguided into thinking no-license is the way forward, totally misguided on the legal implications of throwing code over the fence without a license. Microsoft seems to have succeeded with their mixed source campaign, designed to confuse the open community into a non-productive chaos.

    No I am not particularly fond of the business model behind Qt, but there is a safety net, and we need somebody to fund the development. We need to keep a close eye on Digia, but there is no need to crucify them. They have done a very good job of accommodating so far.

    With regards to Mono, I may be mistaken, but it seems to me that the Android and IOS SDKs are only available through commercial licenses. These are todays two most important platforms for which Digia has made no attempt closing down the code. Instead Digia puts all their weight into getting a professional open stack for us covering all relevant platforms. Qt charts is basically the only problematic spot, and it is for historic reasons. Moreover, from my understanding Xamarin will not provide IDE at all for Android or IOS on linux. To me this is a clear sign that Xamarin is now a destructive force for linux.
    Last edited by Del_; 02-22-2013, 02:27 PM.

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  • jayrulez
    replied
    Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
    Do you base your desktop environment on Samba? Does Samba serve MS or rather Linux?
    First, we would need a clear definition of "anti Linux companies".


    Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
    Do you base your desktop environment on Samba? Does Samba serve MS or rather Linux?
    Does MONO serve MS or rather Linux?

    Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
    Do most of the proprietary packages found in your Linux distribution support some anti Linux companies or just help Linux running some devices?
    Using Samba proliferates the use of MS APIs as much as Mono does.

    Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
    Samba, Firefox, gtk+ don't come from MS or Apple, so I recommend you to stop making yourself a fool. Such strawman examples don't work on me.
    Mono does not come from MS or Apple either.

    Your statements are neither consistent nor coherent.

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