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GNOME Is Still A Ways Off From 10% Goal

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  • #61
    Originally posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
    The "language purity" part is not neccessary true. For example, the imported word club/kurabu/クラブ has a kanji representation: 倶楽部. The problem is more that they import a lot of words, and fitting them into the existing readings of kanji is difficult. In some media at least, the "English" reading is used for the Japanese word, e.g. some Tokyo Jihen Albums like Variety/娯楽 or Adult/大人. Also, there's no strict "katakana word = English" / "word imported from English = katakana", though the second part is often true.
    That 'kanji' representation has the exact same function as the kana (like in imported words in Chinese), theoretically you could pick any three kanji expressing that sound. It's still a foreign word, just not written in a foreign script only for the sake of representation. Fact is that every new word is expressed using kana or that showy ateji manner. Only older stuff (like 'English') is really represented with Japanese words. And even there I'd assume there's some level of atejiness involved.

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    • #62
      How about ハメる and ググる? Two verbs, the first one purely Japanese afaik, and the second imported from "google". Both conjugate the same way, the past for ググる is ググった. Does that look like "language purity"? They import lots of words, the problem, as I tried to say, lies in the representation, and katakana are usually best suited for them.

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      • #63
        The article poking at Gnome hubris is dead on right. Six years ago the founders set themselves a goal of being popular, and having failed to do that they're now taking their toys and going home, trying to crawl into a tiny niche. Gnome 3 is the desktop environment for an insignificant % of people running a Linux desktop on a single output low resolution touchscreen device.

        I expected spreadgnome.org to be a not work for safe site, actually.

        My distro independent experience with gnome3 was being exposed to it around last summer as an Arch rolling upgrade. I was running Arch at work on my desktop. Normally I like cutting edge shiny, but that experience cured me of the habit. As I googled for solutions to that self-inflicted pain I quickly realized the gnome3 community attitude is "our way or the highway." I quickly 'upgraded' that machine to Ubuntu 10.04, which is what it will remain from now on.

        I'm not the only one hating gnome3. For every user satisfied with the experience I can find 10 others who have either switched to KDE or are clinging desperately to gnome2. The numerous Gnome3 problems have all been pointed out endlessly. For me the biggest issue is not running on latest ATI hardware. With ATI having the best price/performance hardware several years running combined with having a lock on the cheapest gear available at Best Buy (with low end Fusion) that's a bigger issue than anyone at Gnome realizes.

        If their goal really is widespread acceptance, that is.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
          The "language purity" part is not neccessary true. For example, the imported word club/kurabu/クラブ has a kanji representation: 倶楽部. The problem is more that they import a lot of words, and fitting them into the existing readings of kanji is difficult. In some media at least, the "English" reading is used for the Japanese word, e.g. some Tokyo Jihen Albums like Variety/娯楽 or Adult/大人. Also, there's no strict "katakana word = English" / "word imported from English = katakana", though the second part is often true.
          If language purity isn't the point why then have two syllabaries composed of the same kana?

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          • #65
            Originally posted by liam View Post
            If language purity isn't the point why then have two syllabaries composed of the same kana?
            We also have two glyphs for each letter. They help to clarify writing. Do they help keep sentence and name beginnings pure? Do katakana help to keep Japanese pure, even though they import words like they're going out of fashion?

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            • #66
              Linux market share steadily increasing since summer 2011

              Short after gnome 3 was released, the marketshare of Linux started a rising trend (I don't say that this is gnome 3 fault, I just have to mention Gnome somewhere because this thread is about the gnome marketshare actually )

              According to a NetMarketShare report it was in December 2011 at 1.41 %, while it was only 1.00 % in Dec 2010.
              (article about that: Desktop Linux increases presence)

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              • #67
                Originally posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
                We also have two glyphs for each letter. They help to clarify writing. Do they help keep sentence and name beginnings pure? Do katakana help to keep Japanese pure, even though they import words like they're going out of fashion?
                That's a bad comparison, imho. For one thing the distinction is optional.
                We can use only set or another and still be understood . The other thing is that we don't use one set of glyphs for one set of words and another for other words.
                Frankly I'm not sure why you are arguing this point. Japanese ethnocentrism is well documented. Now they aren't the only ethnocentric culture (doesn't every culture feel they are especially deserving? it's human nature and I'd be surprised if it were an different) but they feel it more strongly than most.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by liam View Post
                  Frankly I'm not sure why you are arguing this point. Japanese ethnocentrism is well documented.
                  And I am not sure why you're arguing that normally using one kind of glyphs (which weren't invented for foreign words) indicates some kind of "language purity". If they wanted to keep their language "pure" they could go all French-like and ban foreign words (and if they wanted to keep it pure without quotes, they should never have met the Chinese).

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
                    And I am not sure why you're arguing that normally using one kind of glyphs (which weren't invented for foreign words) indicates some kind of "language purity". If they wanted to keep their language "pure" they could go all French-like and ban foreign words (and if they wanted to keep it pure without quotes, they should never have met the Chinese).
                    For one thing, I am basing this on what my gf's japanese professor (who is japanese, so presumably has some knowledge of this beyond knowing japanese) who knows the language well enough to teach it at the advanced university level (which means he must also have some knowledge of its history as well). Forgive me if I take his word (and my minor knowledge of japanese history, ergo their ethnocentrism) over yours.
                    Additionally, the French are the French, and they are "special" even if they go out of their way to be so
                    Besides, the French effort hasn't met with much success since the tech words seem to be used still (http://electronlibre.info).

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Fenrin View Post
                      Short after gnome 3 was released, the marketshare of Linux started a rising trend (I don't say that this is gnome 3 fault, I just have to mention Gnome somewhere because this thread is about the gnome marketshare actually )

                      According to a NetMarketShare report it was in December 2011 at 1.41 %, while it was only 1.00 % in Dec 2010.
                      (article about that: Desktop Linux increases presence)
                      Interesting, at the very least it can help dispel some of the doom and gloom being thrown about. This arguing, whether justified or not, has at the very least not hurt Linux's creditability on the desktop, such as it has.

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