KDE SC 4.6.2 Codename Is Dedicated To GNOME 3.0

[pingufunkybeat]

Your KDE-unrelated post would be better off on an OpenSUSE forum, and I fail to see what it has to do with the topic of this thread. You didn't list a single thing that is related to the KDE project.

But if you feel that not being able to select a font size is very usable, then I guess we have a different opinion on things. Live and let live.

Similarly, if my non-technical girlfriend (a designer and a Mac user) prefers KDE now and finds it very comfortable to use for everything (including most of the apps), then that's what I'd consider usable. Then again, she can manage to change a font, so she's quite advanced in some way. If your level is lower than that, then I agree that you should look for a more simple interface.

[Remco]

Your KDE-unrelated post would be better off on an OpenSUSE forum, and I fail to see what it has to do with the topic of this thread. You didn't list a single thing that is related to the KDE project.

But if you feel that not being able to select a font size is very usable, then I guess we have a different opinion on things. Live and let live.

Similarly, if my non-technical girlfriend (a designer and a Mac user) prefers KDE now and finds it very comfortable to use for everything (including most of the apps), then that's what I'd consider usable. Then again, she can manage to change a font, so she's quite advanced in some way. If your level is lower than that, then I agree that you should look for a more simple interface.

Very funny. Doesn't quite help with getting your favorite DE more users though.

[Remco]

Your KDE-unrelated post would be better off on an OpenSUSE forum, and I fail to see what it has to do with the topic of this thread. You didn't list a single thing that is related to the KDE project.

But if you feel that not being able to select a font size is very usable, then I guess we have a different opinion on things. Live and let live.

Similarly, if my non-technical girlfriend (a designer and a Mac user) prefers KDE now and finds it very comfortable to use for everything (including most of the apps), then that's what I'd consider usable. Then again, she can manage to change a font, so she's quite advanced in some way. If your level is lower than that, then I agree that you should look for a more simple interface.

The unhelpful wizard in KMail is KDE. The sound mixer crap UI is KDE. Crashing stuff is KDE (but not usability related). Awful printer setup is KDE.

Fuck that.

openSUSE is always touted as the best way to experience KDE. A new user will not be able to chat with friends, read e-mail, watch movies, listen to music, change the volume or print their shit. But, they can easily change their fonts. If they can find that particular tree in the forest, that is.

[deanjo]

Configurability is not usability.

I just tried an openSUSE KDE livecd. First thing I see is a bunch of technical mumbo jumbo about the openSUSE project and the build service. The browser was easy enough to find. But how is a user going to figure out how to start chatting in KDE? It was the second thing I tried, and I failed. The wizard for setting up e-mail is not very helpful either. The user is not going to like having to choose between POP, IMAP and a bunch of other options. That's the first page, without any guidance.

Then I tried watching a movie in a patented format. I succeeded, but a non-technical person would not. It's very easy to go wrong here. If you click on the wrong button, you'll get directed to the Yast software repositories without a clue what to do. If you click the right button, you'll go to a website where you have to choose your distribution and version number. If you do everything right, it's a few clicks. But those have to be the right clicks.

Actually, did I succeed? No, because the entire system locked up as Yast was doing its thing. That's not usability though. Trying to listen to music is the same experience as trying to watch a movie. But not only does Yast lock up the computer; if you bypass that, Amarok itself crashes.

The sound mixer: WTF is going on there? I close the volume slider tab with that helpful red X, and now I have no idea how to get it back. Why can I mis-configure the configuration panel for sound?

Installing a printer is difficult to figure out. You are directed to the CUPS web interface. This does not seem to be designed for end users. But OK, if you go to "CUPS for Administrators" and then "Add Printers and Classes", you can click on Add Printer. And then you get a login prompt. It doesn't work with either the standard live login account, or the root account. So, there, printing is impossible with KDE.

That's enough KDE for today.

Lol, and yet my preteen daughter had no issues setting any of that up in openSUSE.
PS even the printer setup through the yast module.

[deanjo]

And no, dad didn't help one bit.

[Remco]

Lol, and yet my preteen daughter had no issues setting any of that up in openSUSE.
PS even the printer setup through the yast module.

Your daughter is undoubtedly very gifted, but that doesn't mean there is no problem with those UIs. You, I, and your daughter obviously know how to fix all that stuff I just mentioned. Hell, I know how to set up a Linux system from scratch. But KDE is not usable for normal human beings.

[deanjo]

Your daughter is undoubtedly very gifted, but that doesn't mean there is no problem with those UIs. You, I, and your daughter obviously know how to fix all that stuff I just mentioned. Hell, I know how to set up a Linux system from scratch. But KDE is not usable for normal human beings.

She's a solid B student and not what I would call gifted. Just a normal kid that has no preconceived notion that something has to be implemented one way because that is how xyz competitor does it.

[TheBlackCat]

But how is a user going to figure out how to start chatting in KDE? It was the second thing I tried, and I failed.

How hard could you have tried? Start type "instant" or "message", or just go to Internet->chat.

The wizard for setting up e-mail is not very helpful either. The user is not going to like having to choose between POP, IMAP and a bunch of other options. That's the first page, without any guidance.

Yes, they are in the process of revamping the entire mail suite, including this, but it is taking longer than expected.

Then I tried watching a movie in a patented format. I succeeded, but a non-technical person would not. It's very easy to go wrong here. If you click on the wrong button, you'll get directed to the Yast software repositories without a clue what to do. If you click the right button, you'll go to a website where you have to choose your distribution and version number. If you do everything right, it's a few clicks. But those have to be the right clicks.

Yes, of course they have to be the right clicks. It reminds me of the quote, "On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."

Unfortunately, there are laws regarding patents that openSUSE has to follow, they do their best within those laws. This has nothing whatsoever to do with KDE, and in fact having anything remotely similar to an automatic install like you saw was unique to KDE, Gnome didn't (and maybe still doesn't) have it.

Trying to listen to music is the same experience as trying to watch a movie. But not only does Yast lock up the computer; if you bypass that, Amarok itself crashes.

Annoying, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with KDE, and would likely be the same in Gnome (if Gnome has such an automatic configuration at all).

The sound mixer: WTF is going on there? I close the volume slider tab with that helpful red X, and now I have no idea how to get it back. Why can I mis-configure the configuration panel for sound?

Why would you want to close the tab in the first place? And I take you didn't bother to click the "new tab" button directly to the left of the tab bar? Seems like an obvious thing to do when you close a tab to me.

Installing a printer is difficult to figure out. You are directed to the CUPS web interface.

How did you manage that? I can't find a way to get to the cups web interface even when I want to, I have to google the port number. Both YaST and KDE have full-featured GUI-based printer configuration tools.

So, there, printing is impossible with KDE.

What!? Why on Earth does a problem with the permissions on a cups web interface on one livecd on one distribution have anything whatsoever to do with whether printing works on KDE?

You obviously don't understand how Linux works or else you wouldn't say something so nonsensical. There are different programs and libraries provided by different projects. These are then packaged by distributions who take care of things like setting permissions.

If a distribution sets the wrong permissions for a program like cups, that has nothing whatsoever to do with whether printing works with KDE, it just means that a particular distribution made mistake in implementing something totally unrelated to KDE.

It is like saying "the drive in my DVD player won't open, therefore my brand of TVs is incapable of working with DVD players". Your brand of TV can work with DVD players just fine as long as the DVD player itself isn't broken.

[kraftman]

Very funny. Doesn't quite help with getting your favorite DE more users though.

You're also failing in doing so. Like Pingufunkybeat said your post wasn't about KDE at all.

[kraftman]

The unhelpful wizard in KMail is KDE. The sound mixer crap UI is KDE. Crashing stuff is KDE (but not usability related). Awful printer setup is KDE.

The messed up interface is Gnome Shell. This ends every discussion, because Gnome Shell is something which shouldn't see the day light in at least few months. Not to mention slow as hell compositions in Gnome 3 and its 'no options, no features' mantra. Gnome is better in some things, but I'm certain it's not better in usability.

openSUSE is always touted as the best way to experience KDE. A new user will not be able to chat with friends, read e-mail, watch movies, listen to music, change the volume or print their shit. But, they can easily change their fonts. If they can find that particular tree in the forest, that is.

I beg to differ. I always wanted to try OpenSuse, but every time I download DVD and try to install it my mouse is not working. I have a typical PS/2 mouse and it works without problems in every other distro I tried. You would have the best KDE experience with Kubuntu if somebody would test the packages they're shipping - it offers automatic codecs installation and some other goodies. Good example is problem with shutting down the computer introduced in KDE 4.6.2. Why the hell nobody in Kubuntu bothered to change a single letter in a single configuration file? The same happened in Arch though, but Arch is little different and this weakness is explainable.