Will The Free Software Desktop Ever Make It?

[Adarion]

Okay, nothing is perfect. And sometimes I get crazy with some thing here, too.
But then

a) it was my chioce to use Gentoo instead of some ready-to-use binary distro. And Gentoo is rather complex in some things. You will meet issues that you never see in binary distros since they do it all for you.
I remember the libpng update... (had to recompile ~80% of my system).

b) Windows can be a horror, too. If something there goes wrong you don't even have that awesome console where you can do things and look at logs and fix stuff.
Sometimes it also has a nasty behavior that you just can't stop without reading the whole net up and down to find a tool or a registry hack how to stop Windows doing this or that.

Some configuration might still be less comfortable and without GUI (personally I prefer to have both solutions, a GUI for comfort and a text/CL UI for handling in scripts or if something is broken in the GUI).

I do use Linux and Windows (XP) as Desktop systems (Windows mainly for gaming though) and I see that Linux is on par with Windows. Each one has some nasty corners but Linux ist steadily growing and evolving (asides from a certain GPU vendor with V, I and A or XGI. ) I think the main issues are some config things without GUI in Linux, WLAN stuff (not Linux's fault, blame Broadcom and the like), GPU stuff (yes of course it needs time to build up a free full featured OpenGL4.x etc. driver) and... well. Maybe some chips here and there but a lot of things are due to lack of chip manufacturer support.

I mean, if you really try to look under the hood of Windows, if you really try to fix something there... well, you'd be quite lost in most cases.

Otherwise it is just a user problem: if you are not used to something new or cling to an old behavior then you might have problems migrating. But even then there are "skins" to simulate Windows optics and behavior e.g. in KDE.

Oh, and we need native Linux games. Yes. That is the primary downside. If games come to Linux we'll have world domination within a week

[deanjo]

a) it was my chioce to use Gentoo instead of some ready-to-use binary distro. And Gentoo is rather complex in some things. You will meet issues that you never see in binary distros since they do it all for you.
I remember the libpng update... (had to recompile ~80% of my system).

That is all fine and well but the vast majority of end users would rather not deal with such headaches. Your choice is not the choice that would be made by almost every end user out there.

b) Windows can be a horror, too. If something there goes wrong you don't even have that awesome console where you can do things and look at logs and fix stuff.

Hit F8 at boot.

Sometimes it also has a nasty behavior that you just can't stop without reading the whole net up and down to find a tool or a registry hack how to stop Windows doing this or that.

True but the flip side to that is that if you find a fix the procedure to apply it will be somewhat consistent with windows or OS X. In linux the fixes and how to's are usually very distro specific (and changes frequently with released versions of said distro). There are far to many times where a person in linux will have the same issue as another with a different distro and the fix is completely different because of choice of packages used and varying implementations of solutions. Just for example if a person asks "How do I install xyz on linux" you will get many different answers because it all depends on the distro being used.

I do use Linux and Windows (XP) as Desktop systems (Windows mainly for gaming though) and I see that Linux is on par with Windows.

I have to disagree there. Linux is still behind on even some of the very basics (see the recent firefox thread for example) and forget about deviating from those basics and expecting to find a refined complete application to do a task that does not involve a task that pretty much everyone uses. Once you start going after uses outside the basic web and document creation selection of refined apps start to get pretty thin.

Each one has some nasty corners but Linux ist steadily growing and evolving (asides from a certain GPU vendor with V, I and A or XGI. )

Sure it is steadily growing but so are other OS's. What the real pain is that while linux is growing it is still very far behind in some very basic areas of desktop usage and there isn't a whole lot of effort being put into making those areas any better.

I think the main issues are some config things without GUI in Linux,

No argument there, I'm not saying to get rid of the cli options but there should be a GUI ui for pretty much everything as well especially when it comes to configuration.

WLAN stuff (not Linux's fault, blame Broadcom and the like),

Ya a big chunk of that was linux's fault but things have been better in that aspect since adopting and developing a "universal" ieee 802.11 stacks and layers.

GPU stuff (yes of course it needs time to build up a free full featured OpenGL4.x etc. driver) and... well. Maybe some chips here and there but a lot of things are due to lack of chip manufacturer support.

Patents and licenses hurt a lot there, there are a lot of things a closed source solution can do that the open solutions simply will not be able to do unless those IP holders open things up or licenses start easing their hardline stances.

I mean, if you really try to look under the hood of Windows, if you really try to fix something there... well, you'd be quite lost in most cases.

Well believe it or not, Windows has become a fairly robust and stable system. A lot of the "windows is crashy/buggy/etc" rhetoric stems from users that have never forgave for earlier windows releases and still dwell on those old versions.

Otherwise it is just a user problem: if you are not used to something new or cling to an old behavior then you might have problems migrating. But even then there are "skins" to simulate Windows optics and behavior e.g. in KDE.

It maybe a "user problem" but it is a lot easier to change code then it is to change a users willingness to get techy and commit to leaning a system inside and out. Plug and play and other technologies were developed because of this realization. There was nothing technically wrong in the days of having to set jumpers and such but the manufacturers realized that expecting the end user to read and understand how to properly configure it was too much to expect that end user to do. So how do they sell more of their product? They made it easier for the end user to install, configure and use their product.

[pejakm]

For all of you whiners out there: if you dislike Linux OS so much, simply STFU and go install Windows or whatever, and then tons of other bullshit software just to make that OS secure and usable.

[deanjo]

For all of you whiners out there: if you dislike Linux OS so much, simply STFU and go install Windows or whatever, and then tons of other bullshit software just to make that OS secure and usable.

There is a difference in whining and being able to pointing out where things have to be improved. Of course attitudes like yours in this message don't make things any better. Slapping horse blinders on and telling people to STFU doesn't do anyone any good other then reinforcing the saying "ignorance is bliss".

[pejakm]

There is a difference in whining and being able to pointing out where things have to be improved. Of course attitudes like yours in this message don't make things any better. Slapping horse blinders on and telling people to STFU doesn't do anyone any good other then reinforcing the saying "ignorance is bliss".

Not directed at you, don't know why did you find yourself here. You have some good points (I agree with them) but: pointing out where Linux OS is bad compared to Windows OS also gets you nowhere, as anyone who ever used both of those 2 OSes already know that. Plus, every end user has its own opinion and a wish for something, imagine what would happen if everyone would start to "point out where things have to be improved".

[deanjo]

imagine what would happen if everyone would start to "point out where things have to be improved".

Ya, it might lead to developers saying "hey we have to address this" finally.

[deanjo]

Let's put it this way, with the many development companies I have worked for over the years, the process for adding features has pretty much been the same. The most requested get priority on development and implementation. The same should apply to almost any software development if you wish that software to become a leader in the field and to have mass adoption.

[pejakm]

Let's put it this way, with the many development companies I have worked for over the years, the process for adding features has pretty much been the same. The most requested get priority on development and implementation. The same should apply to almost any software development if you wish that software to become a leader in the field and to have mass adoption.

I agree, but the Linux software devs already know what do people want the most, but how to work on something without necessary founding, which commercial software has?
And, by the way, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/ is a good place to start when contacting developers, not this empty forum talks.

[deanjo]

I agree, but the Linux software devs already know what do people want the most, but how to work on something without necessary founding, which commercial software has?

The thing is that most of the linux development is done by funded devs (at least in key subsystems). My company for example uses a large chunk of the income generated from our software towards the open source development. That money comes from adding features that are most requested to make it appeal a larger audience.

And, by the way, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/ is a good place to start when contacting developers, not this empty forum talks.

I disagree, a lot of the key devs are present in these forums. The best part posting here is that they cannot slap a "will not fix" status here.

[SirT]

In my opinion, he is conflating issues here. Sure Ubuntu apparently doesn't provide an easy way for experts to fix issues they've caused. But the average user? They won't be messing with xorg.conf at all. So, in reality, this particular issue is a complete non-issue for the Free Software Desktop making it.

Also, seriously, I've only dabbled in making an xorg.conf and even I know that it goes Option "OptionInQuotes" "setting". He really has no one to blame but himself here, even if Ubuntu did make it hard for him to fix it.