Linux is not ready for Steam

[deanjo]

Bad decision on their part.

Yea sure KDE does not need PA just as long as you don't actually install any applications that are not as part of the default install. Then you may or may not need to install it.

And they will probably do something stupid like trying to have Pulse Audio run on top of Dmix so they don't have the change the default Alsa device for other applications to be the pulse plugin.

Actually it's been a very good decision on their part. Support issues are drastically down. Don't believe me? Feel free to post on their forums and mailing lists. As far as applications that are pulse exclusive I can pretty much count them on with my thumbs. Fortunately most apps do support ALSA and / or OSS which AOSS handles fine. FYI When they did default to installing Pulse it was not running on top of dmix.

[Svartalf]

Every linux distro can use it, just because an app is packaged does not mean it is the preferred solution. As far as the HDA threads go, Pulse doesn't cure any of it. If the driver is buggy then Pulse will exhibit the same behavior. Pulse has to go through ALSA. Pulse has no low level interface to the card what so ever.

Aaand... It should be noted that earlier in this little discussion that I happen to have HDA problems WITH PA.

Even if one accepts the premise that PA is an answer for things- if ALSA's busted, putting it on top of it won't FIX it, it only sweeps the problems under the carpet at best.

[deanjo]

Aaand... It should be noted that earlier in this little discussion that I happen to have HDA problems WITH PA.

Even if one accepts the premise that PA is an answer for things- if ALSA's busted, putting it on top of it won't FIX it, it only sweeps the problems under the carpet at best.

Exactly, for some reason some people think Pulse can fix a broken base. The audio chain is only as good as it's weakest link and since Pulse does not handle the low-level functions it relies on Alsa (or OSS) for it's end result.

[mugginz]

Exactly, for some reason some people think Pulse can fix a broken base. The audio chain is only as good as it's weakest link and since Pulse does not handle the low-level functions it relies on Alsa (or OSS) for it's end result.

Exactly and where there's brokenness in the hardware driver ALSA's higher level stuff and PA are both royally screwed.

[kaczu]

Every linux distro can use it, just because an app is packaged does not mean it is the preferred solution. As far as the HDA threads go, Pulse doesn't cure any of it.

I HAVE the hardware I KNOW it does.

If the driver is buggy then Pulse will exhibit the same behavior. Pulse has to go through ALSA. Pulse has no low level interface to the card what so ever.

You're using a generalization of "driver buggy" it depends on exactly what the issue is.

[deanjo]

Exactly and where there's brokenness in the hardware driver ALSA's higher level stuff and PA are both royally screwed.

Changing a drive shaft on a car doesn't fix a blown out tire.

[deanjo]

I HAVE the hardware I KNOW it does.

I have tonnes of HDA devices as well working perfectly with plain Alsa. What your talking about is simply impossible as Pulse has no low-level access to the device without going through alsa or oss.

You're using a generalization of "driver buggy" it depends on exactly what the issue is.

No I'm not, I'm using what a driver actually does. Your confusing the middleware with the driver.

[deanjo]

If you don't believe me kaczu, disable alsa and oss in your kernel and tell me how well your devices are working with Pulse.

[kaczu]

Aaand... It should be noted that earlier in this little discussion that I happen to have HDA problems WITH PA.

Even if one accepts the premise that PA is an answer for things- if ALSA's busted, putting it on top of it won't FIX it, it only sweeps the problems under the carpet at best.

No one is saying that PA is the answer for all things. However what you're saying and others is that PA does absolutely nothing and just sits there and just causes latency in the nothingness that it does, which is ridiculous.

Second do you know how many versions of Intel HDA exist? There's tons originally I knew of 3 different versions. Now there's tons more. I have a version of it too and my experience is different then yours which is neither wholly indicative nor wholly inconclusive of how it will function.

[kaczu]

If you don't believe me kaczu, disable alsa and oss in your kernel and tell me how well your devices are working with Pulse.

I did have Pulse disabled in OpenSuse and it was a nightmare. Flash but no Amarok, Amarok but no mplayer. Turning down Amarok turned down everything. The only benefit was that I didn't have to restart PA which was a problem at the time. However, the trade off wasn't worth it for me.