Budgie 10.10 Desktop Releasing This Quarter As Wayland-Only

[phoronix]

Phoronix: Budgie 10.10 Desktop Releasing This Quarter As Wayland-Only

For fans of the Budgie desktop environment that got its start out of the Solus Linux distribution, the Budgie 10.10 release expected later this quarter will be their first release that is Wayland-only...

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Budgie-10.10-Wayland-Only

[varikonniemi]

It's the obvious choice going forward, let the LTS distros carry the burden of X11 and let the zombie finally fall into history as a toolkit used through xwayland.

[davidbepo]

this DE always felt half baked and empty, but one less choice going forward

[skeevy420]

It's the obvious choice going forward, let the LTS distros carry the burden of X11 and let the zombie finally fall into history as a toolkit used through xwayland.

I agree. Plus, when desktop environments try to cater to both X11 and Wayland they risk ending up being like Plasma 6 where each session has different features and capabilities. It also means a potential doubling of resources to solve bugs or to make anything new. Supporting both made a lot more sense back in the day when Wayland and various Wayland compositors were utter trash. Nowadays it seems like trying to support both X11 and Wayland is just hampering Wayland getting better.

[royce]

Indeed. It's been a good three years that Wayland got to a point it just works for your regular desktop session. No reason for anybody to burden themselves with X11 support anymore.

[NateHubbard]

No reason for anybody to burden themselves with X11 support anymore.

Oh, but I'm sure we'll be told otherwise momentarily. Surely someone will let me know that my wayland desktop isn't possible and can't actually be used.

[ezst036]

Xorg X11 Server lacking a full time dedicated maintainer, and really, multiple full timers, means no sane desktop can stick with it.

X11 was a dead zombie the day the last maintainer called it quits.

Perhaps someone can put a programming-capable AI on maintaining X11 and adding new features since no human wants to do it. Wayland has multiple maintainers, so Wayland wins.

[Weasel]

Oh, but I'm sure we'll be told otherwise momentarily. Surely someone will let me know that my wayland desktop isn't possible and can't actually be used.

Yeah act like it's not your fault at all that you base it only on your own anecdotes and use cases. It's just the X11 trolls right?

Every SINGLE TIME I mention what Wayland can't do—I mean in modern uses not theoretical crap—that both Windows and X11 can do (so it's not X11-specific), I of course get ignored or people are like "not my use case so who cares".

Well, your casual use case is not my use case, so who cares.

tl;dr It's a pile of shit only for casuals at using their PC.

[browseria]

...Every SINGLE TIME I mention what Wayland can't do—I mean in modern uses not theoretical crap—that both Windows and X11 can do (so it's not X11-specific), I of course get ignored or people are like "not my use case so who cares"...

I don't remember specifically what your issue was, was it lack of absolute positioning? Since this largely affects only you, is there another way you can solve your problem without using absolute positioning? Either the relative positioning Wayland protocols or changing your application to an MDI application (although that is looked on as a UI no-no as well).

I'm just saying, it doesn't look like absolute positioning is coming to your use case anytime soon, so it might be worthwhile thinking of alternatives. How about running your application in a rootful XWayland session - that should solve your problem and you would still be able to run your application under Wayland with no changes to it?

...tl;dr It's a pile of shit only for casuals at using their PC.

I'm not a casual PC user, and I disagree 100% - I've been using Wayland in production and productively for development since 2016 - nearly nine years now! The only hiccups I ever had was the Eclipse IDE about box not showing up in the center of the screen anymore (same issue as yours), which I can live with and there was an issue at the top end of 2017 with the clipboard not always working 100% of the time, which was fixed in the next GNOME release IIRC. The ability of Wayland to support multiple monitors of different sizes, resolutions and positioning sanely is a critical piece for my being productive, and is just not possible under X11. That to me is more important than absolute positioning. I understand your use case varies. That doesn't mean it is crap for all but the most casual user. It's just crap for you, although I still don't understand why you can't just run a rootful XWayland session. This trope of Wayland not being ready (still! in 2025!) really needs to die. Wayland never was a drop-in replacement for X11, it really never was. It was an excuse to move things that don't belong with the display server protocol out of the display server, and find new legitimate homes for this functionality. And this too has been largely accomplished. All the better for the Linux ecosystem as a whole.

[Weasel]

I don't remember specifically what your issue was, was it lack of absolute positioning? Since this largely affects only you, is there another way you can solve your problem without using absolute positioning? Either the relative positioning Wayland protocols or changing your application to an MDI application (although that is looked on as a UI no-no as well).

I'm just saying, it doesn't look like absolute positioning is coming to your use case anytime soon, so it might be worthwhile thinking of alternatives. How about running your application in a rootful XWayland session - that should solve your problem and you would still be able to run your application under Wayland with no changes to it?

I mean I can run it just fine on X11 which is what I'm using it. Obviously, that doesn't mean I won't point out the issues with Wayland and why I refuse to switch to it (among other reasons). The whole point of feedback is to get it from everyone not just those you agree with. Do you guys love echo chambers so much? Every software is perfect if you only look for feedback from what you agree with.

I wasn't aware that XWayland can do it either. I mean at that point why even use Wayland. But that begs the question: why can XWayland do it but not Wayland? WTF?

I thought it was a "privacy issue" but it looks like this is complete bullshit reason since if you have XWayland installed, supposed "malware" can do it by simply using... XWayland... as expected.

Of course there's possibility that X11 dies, but I'm hoping by that point I'll have other alternatives like Arcan. I was hoping for Wayland to also be an alternative by that point but this seems futile, considering they won't budge no matter what negative feedback is said.

BTW absolute window positioning is just one case, another would be obtaining the display or just specific pixels on it. I know that's a "Security issue" (omg!!! tragic), but since screenshotters/screencappers can do it, then malware also can, so it's a non-issue.

You say you require permissions to do it? Well I never said that requiring permissions is bad, did I? Arcan requires permissions too and I find it just fine. But I am fucking sick of not allowing it at all because some specimen can't find "a use for it" in his own pathetic use case.