GNOME Now Has Refine As An Alternative To GNOME Tweaks, Phosh 0.44 Released

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  • phoronix
    Administrator
    • Jan 2007
    • 67377

    GNOME Now Has Refine As An Alternative To GNOME Tweaks, Phosh 0.44 Released

    Phoronix: GNOME Now Has Refine As An Alternative To GNOME Tweaks, Phosh 0.44 Released

    There weren't too many changes this week for the GNOME project given the end of year holidays wrapping up and many taking time off. But This Week in GNOME is out with its newest issue to highlight the interesting desktop changes that did get made...

    Phoronix, Linux Hardware Reviews, Linux hardware benchmarks, Linux server benchmarks, Linux benchmarking, Desktop Linux, Linux performance, Open Source graphics, Linux How To, Ubuntu benchmarks, Ubuntu hardware, Phoronix Test Suite
  • Quackdoc
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2020
    • 5089

    #2
    is this 4 apps gnome users need to download now?

    Comment

    • skeevy420
      Senior Member
      • May 2017
      • 8664

      #3
      Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post
      is this 4 apps gnome users need to download now?
      Do you know how many apps KDE users have to install to have a fully functioning KDE desktop? Anyone who has made the mistake of doing minimal KDE and GNOME installs has run into that problem.

      This is GNOME picking up random contributor projects like KDE does. The difference here is that Refine and Tweaks do the same things slightly differently while things like Kate and KWrite do the mostly the same things the same . . . Refine and Tweaks are both Python/GTK, but Refine looks like it'll be easier to maintain compared to how Tweaks is written.

      Comment

      • klapaucius
        Senior Member
        • Mar 2015
        • 163

        #4
        Running Refine from flatpak doesn't work, the options appear greyed out, as if they were disabled. Does anybody have the same problem? (Yes, I have checked the bug reports).

        Comment

        • schmidtbag
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 6618

          #5
          Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
          Do you know how many apps KDE users have to install to have a fully functioning KDE desktop? Anyone who has made the mistake of doing minimal KDE and GNOME installs has run into that problem.
          That's not really the same thing. KDE minimal still gives you pretty much all the configuration you need/want [for the apps you have installed] but otherwise doesn't contain a lot of apps. For GNOME, you need to install an app for features that every install would otherwise have.
          This is GNOME picking up random contributor projects like KDE does. The difference here is that Refine and Tweaks do the same things slightly differently while things like Kate and KWrite do the mostly the same things the same . . . Refine and Tweaks are both Python/GTK, but Refine looks like it'll be easier to maintain compared to how Tweaks is written.
          The problem is it won't take much for Refine to become the same user-unfriendly mess that Tweaks has become. All GNOME (and KDE for that matter) needs to do is have a check box in Control Center or System Settings for "advanced" settings. With this box unchecked, you get GNOME-level configuration for each category. With the box checked, you get KDE-level configuration. It's a win-win: you don't need 3rd party configuration tools, it's not difficult to use, and users only get as much as they ask for.
          Maybe even have another checkbox for "superfluous" settings - basically anything that's neat but really not necessary to tweak.

          Comment

          • primary
            Junior Member
            • Nov 2023
            • 26

            #6
            Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post
            is this 4 apps gnome users need to download now?
            define fully functional.

            Comment

            • Landway12
              Junior Member
              • Jun 2024
              • 23

              #7
              Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
              ... All GNOME (and KDE for that matter) needs to do is have a check box in Control Center or System Settings for "advanced" settings. ...
              The difference here is that KDE is fine as-is for most users, while Gnome requires third party apps. And the apps doesn't have straight forward names, so it is difficult for new users to figure out that they must install "dash-to-dock" (which is a "Taskbar") and "Gnome Tweaks" (which is an expanded "Settings") to make it useful. Even worse is when the apps aren't updated in time, e.g. I had to dump Gnome for KDE maybe 4 years ago because "dash-to-dock" wasn't supported until far later.

              KDE, Windows, MacOS does not have this issue.

              *edit
              Tried Ubuntu recently, on a laptop with touch screen, and couldn't figure out how to activate the on-screen-keyboard. The touch functions also aren't working properly (e.g. scrolling in the File Manager always clicks).

              While KDE Neon, on the other hand, worked. Not only that, but when the tablet was converted into tablet mode, KDE detected this and slightly enlarged some of the GUI.

              This is quite interesting, since Gnome was initially marketed for touch screen, while KDE traditional desktops, and in the end, KDE is far more touch friendly and simultaneously provides a superior desktop environment.
              Last edited by Landway12; 04 January 2025, 10:54 AM.

              Comment

              • skeevy420
                Senior Member
                • May 2017
                • 8664

                #8
                Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                That's not really the same thing. KDE minimal still gives you pretty much all the configuration you need/want [for the apps you have installed] but otherwise doesn't contain a lot of apps. For GNOME, you need to install an app for features that every install would otherwise have.

                KDE minimal installs can omit having image codecs come with image viewers. Some need a codec pack from both QT and KDE. The way KDE's dependencies and optional dependencies are defined and set is a mess between distributions.

                The problem is it won't take much for Refine to become the same user-unfriendly mess that Tweaks has become. All GNOME (and KDE for that matter) needs to do is have a check box in Control Center or System Settings for "advanced" settings. With this box unchecked, you get GNOME-level configuration for each category. With the box checked, you get KDE-level configuration. It's a win-win: you don't need 3rd party configuration tools, it's not difficult to use, and users only get as much as they ask for.
                Maybe even have another checkbox for "superfluous" settings - basically anything that's neat but really not necessary to tweak.
                What is and isn't an "advanced" setting? Or "superfluous"? I'm asking philosophically and rhetorically since we both know it's a fluid answer that varies by skill and experience.

                You're not wrong in your assessment of the situation. At the end of the day yet another configuration tool, regardless of merit, ends up being the same issue I have with Nota/KWrite/Kate where I feel that we don't need three Text Editors any more than we need three Settings Apps. We need easier ways to switch programs' feature levels between Simple/Intermediate/Advanced.

                I feel we've come to this:

                Comment

                • pWe00Iri3e7Z9lHOX2Qx
                  Senior Member
                  • Jul 2020
                  • 1595

                  #9
                  Originally posted by primary View Post

                  define fully functional.
                  Basic shit like minimize and maximize window control buttons that 99% of the computing world is accustomed to.

                  Comment

                  • bug77
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2009
                    • 6521

                    #10
                    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                    That's not really the same thing. KDE minimal still gives you pretty much all the configuration you need/want [for the apps you have installed] but otherwise doesn't contain a lot of apps. For GNOME, you need to install an app for features that every install would otherwise have.

                    The problem is it won't take much for Refine to become the same user-unfriendly mess that Tweaks has become. All GNOME (and KDE for that matter) needs to do is have a check box in Control Center or System Settings for "advanced" settings. With this box unchecked, you get GNOME-level configuration for each category. With the box checked, you get KDE-level configuration. It's a win-win: you don't need 3rd party configuration tools, it's not difficult to use, and users only get as much as they ask for.
                    Maybe even have another checkbox for "superfluous" settings - basically anything that's neat but really not necessary to tweak.
                    I believe I've argued this before, but you can actually get away even without the basic/advanced toggle if you implement a MRU policy: display what the user needs frequently, hide the rest.

                    Eagerly awaiting the Gnome plugin that will let the user select which app they want to use to configure that thing

                    And honestly, I don't really care, I got used to "Alt+Space", type and find whatever. Otoh, I couldn't even tell where the settings I use most reside anymore.

                    Comment

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