NetworkManager 1.50 Released - Now Ensures Offensive Terms Don't Appear In Settings

[DumbFsck]

Here in England I do have a few Polish (and one Russian) friends who think it's ridiculous germanic* and romance (derived from Latin) languages make fun of their troubled history of being stuck between a rock and a hard place and being enslaved by the Christians and Muslims.

*: I don't remember which, but one of the Scandinavians use thrall or something, which was the viking word for their slaves.

Polish calls it a composite word like "onewithoutfreedom". In Russian and other Slavic languages it's rab or rob. Hungarian, Finnish, and some baltic and balkans languages also take from " rab".


Either way, yeah, it sucks to continuously make fun of history of abuse of an ethnicity, especially considering how Polish and Russian people's history is basically always going from bad to bad and sometimes worse.

[TheMightyBuzzard]

It's clear that your position is that one should not take into account other people's feelings and opinions when code is written/technology is used. I understand that you hold that position, but I don't have to agree with it.
Are you saying we should not take vulnerable people's needs into account in our daily lives?

That all depends. If they're vulnerable because of some legitimate trauma, sure, it's a good thing to give them some consideration if you come across them. If they're fragile little narcissists because they were groomed to be that way, absolutely not. Coddling the weak is not helping them, it only further cements their weakness.

Look, you're calling yourself an old grouch. That kinda implies that you grew up when we learned not to go around helping the disabled unless they asked for help. It's insulting if they can do something on their own and you butt in. Well, it's a million times worse to teach perfectly healthy people that they're "vulnerable". You turn what would have been a functional member of society into an emotional/mental cripple when you do. It's not charity or kindness, it's straight up mental/emotional abuse and you should feel deep shame for doing so.

[DumbFsck]

Master on the other hand I see no issue. We still use and will always continue to use when regarding "mastery". Afterall, it comes from " magis" in Latin, their word for "more", and denoted someone who " knew more" or "achieved more", had " super(more)iority".

If I'm not mistaken places in India still use it to title boys, like a junior version of "Mister".

Of course I wouldn't mind if Americans and the English started trying to anglicize "Kunst" or "geschickt"
or even "Fertigkeit" for mastery. There's meaning there that I don't know how to express in English. Funnily enough I know how to express it in Korean (gosu) and Mandarin (gongfu)...

[woddy]

Forcing others to submit to inconvenience for the sake of someone else is not kindness. Demanding others be inconvenienced for your own sake is not either. Charity is only charity when it is your own choice, otherwise it's oppression.

Will the NM developer be free to call things whatever he wants or does he need someone's permission?
If he decided to change those words because he finds them offensive he is free to do so and you are free to make your own application using the terms you want. It's called freedom!

[ZeroPointEnergy]

If the majority of people are bigots

You are not the majority, you are a very loud minority that gets farmed by media and sent around the internet to cry about how trivial changes in language are the end of civilization. Your completely unfounded hysteria would be hilarious if only you would stop harassing people in the process.

[Delta_44]

People's reactions to words matter. This is something a lot of geeks just don't get but should. It's about not being a jerk. There is no such thing as an absolute right to being a jerk to people without consequence.

Oh for fuck's sake... based on this I should just shut up because no one will ever predict what's the reaction to literally anything could be.
I could offend someone even saying hi so what's the fucking point?

At this point it just seems that "you" guys just don't want to think anymore and lack the ability to willing to understand what you're reading.
God forbid you learn something about "irony" or "sarcasm", because you cannot understand it if you're not willing to use a few braincells by understanding the TRUE meaning of something, behind what lies in front of your eyes.

About the other half of your statement, I don't know why you spat that reasoning when I was clearly saying something that had nothing to do with "preciseness" "context" and stuff.

[Martyn]

Will the NM developer be free to call things whatever he wants or does he need someone's permission?

People love to talk about consent and power imbalances until it's inconvenient to do so. It's a Red Hat funded project which is adhering to a Red Hat corporate initiative. There really wouldn't be a free choice not to remove those terms considering Red Hat wants the terms removed and is paying the developer to remove said terms. What is he going to do? Say no and be replaced by someone else? Sure, there's a choice, but it's the kind of choice that's going to cost him a lot for zero gain. Better to smile and go along with it than make it a hill to die on!

Likewise, most IT professionals (even devops) don't just get to replace components like NetworkManager on existing production systems (without proper technical justification) but they do have to mess about to keep existing systems working with pointlessly incompatible config schema changes. Google did a similar thing with Chromium where policies would break between versions because they wanted to swap whitelist with allowlist, resulting in sysadmins like me having to maintain two values (one for older versions with the original name, one for newer versions with the newspeak) across heterogenous systems across multiple unrelated networks.

In both cases, free software does not mean freedom of choice for the people subjected to the unwanted changes.

[fitzie]

I am more tolerating towards the removal of whitelist/blacklist. At least I can rationalize such removal as to avoid any hint of racism, taking white (people) as good and black (people) as bad.

But taking master/slave as offensive and removing them from existing technical terms? Sorry, we should not let any words be judged as offensive by themselves, without actual existence of bullying or discrimination within the context.

I can also argue the paranoid removal of "master" everywhere in IT industry offends a lot of real masters in their professions. Their titles are being defiled.

what will you do about the chess? swap the colors? or make both players have the same colors?

[fitzie]

You are not the majority, you are a very loud minority that gets farmed by media and sent around the internet to cry about how trivial changes in language are the end of civilization. Your completely unfounded hysteria would be hilarious if only you would stop harassing people in the process.

I thought everyone who didn't like banning perfectly mundane words were all bigots. now they are just whiners? I guess that's a step up then.

[TheMightyBuzzard]

Will the NM developer be free to call things whatever he wants or does he need someone's permission?
If he decided to change those words because he finds them offensive he is free to do so and you are free to make your own application using the terms you want. It's called freedom!

You're on the original topic, we were on a broader tangent. So that's not a valid argument.