NetworkManager 1.50 Released - Now Ensures Offensive Terms Don't Appear In Settings

[zparihar]

Has NetworkManager gone woke?

[Old Grouch]

kindness is reciprocal,

According to followers of the philosophy of the son of a first-century carpenter, apparently it isn't. It is possible to be kind without expecting anything in return.
Modern psychologists point out that just being kind is good for your well-being (American Psychological Association - article has extensive citations).

[Old Grouch]

Then we should bann the word "dad" because many as child abused people got abused by their dad's and even other sex slaves were told to use that term, it's very common. In such abusive/rape scenarious directly after calling the abuser "master" the next common word is "dad". So we should bann this term then, too, according to your logic, to not create PTSD for this raped children.

It's clear that your position is that one should not take into account other people's feelings and opinions when code is written/technology is used. I understand that you hold that position, but I don't have to agree with it.
Are you saying we should not take vulnerable people's needs into account in our daily lives?

[fitzie]

According to followers of the philosophy of the son of a first-century carpenter, apparently it isn't. It is possible to be kind without expecting anything in return.
Modern psychologists point out that just being kind is good for your well-being (American Psychological Association - article has extensive citations).

this is a perfect example of trying to exploit people's empathy, or religion. i'm not saying it's not good to be kind, I'm just saying the people calling me names telling me I have a moral fault because I'm not going to avoid using the word blacklist does not engender any kindness from me. at the end of the day the best argument I've heard to avoid using these words is yes, makes absolutely no sense, but do it anyway because you want to be a good person. sorry, that's just silly, I don't get my moral code from online activists.

[lkundrak]

Has NetworkManager gone woke?

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Love,
Lubo.

[billyswong]

I am more tolerating towards the removal of whitelist/blacklist. At least I can rationalize such removal as to avoid any hint of racism, taking white (people) as good and black (people) as bad.

But taking master/slave as offensive and removing them from existing technical terms? Sorry, we should not let any words be judged as offensive by themselves, without actual existence of bullying or discrimination within the context.

I can also argue the paranoid removal of "master" everywhere in IT industry offends a lot of real masters in their professions. Their titles are being defiled.

[TheMightyBuzzard]

They are to some, and the question is whether the people for whom the terms are offensive, or worse, trigger PTSD (modern slavery exists) should be taken into account when code is written/technology is used.

The question is not whether the words are offensive in themselves, but whether other people's feelings and opinions should be taken into account when we do things.

Many people justify their position by using context and intent - the words are not being used in the context of an actual, human, master-slave relationship, and the intent of using them in a technological context is not (usually) one of wishing to upset others, although some people will want to do exactly that.

Unfortunately, not everyone thinks that the context and intent arguments override the feelings and opinions they have, and both groups of people can feel very strongly that they are right. Conflict results.

There are other terms that can be used, which would be helpful to defuse the conflict. My wish is that other terms, when used, should be technically accurate; and unambiguous. For this reason, I don't like 'blocklist', as it can have two distinct meanings (a list of blocks on a block-based storage medium; or a list of things to be prevented - 'blocked') - I would prefer deny-list, paired with allow-list.

Sometimes the right thing to do is to be nice to people.

Yes, slavery and slave trading are still actively happening in the modern world yet these chuckleheads choose words in completely unrelated context to reee about. It has nothing to do with the words actually being offensive to anyone, they're taught to look for things to claim offense about and that no stretch is too absurd to lose their minds over. Even if you have to completely redefine words to get there.

What does this do? Well, for starters, it angers anyone who isn't functionally insane and creates two classes that are by definition pitted against each other. It also sets up an argument against freedom of speech, which is necessary if you plan on implementing a totalitarian government and crushing dissent.

These are both Day One plays right out of Marx and Stalin's playbooks. Note that the exact same people are also the ones against having an armed populace, which is also way up there on every last dictator's Christmas list.

It's a crying shame we don't teach actual history anymore or they'd know that the instant that the ones giving them their marching orders actually take power, the Useful Idiots either shut their fool mouths about everything they'd previously been screaming, were shipped off to prison, or were rounded up and shot.

[clippy]

There's a group of people whose general ethnicity literally derives from and sounds like the word "slave": Slavic. Yet all of these approved NPC SJW types would "deduct points" or short circuit their own logic because Slavs are overwhelmingly "white" (in NPC vernacular). Queue the NPC bluescreen memes... Regarding engineering quality, we need to remove these mind viruses from our engineering staff - they're so easy to scan for, but the genius virus has made its own removal socially taboo.

Slav does not derive from slave. It's the other way around. The earliest name of the Slavs is attested by 6th century latin and greek sources, which record their name as "Sclaveni" or "Sclauoi" respectively. At the time, the latin word for slave was still "servus". The term slav adopted its meaning of slave in western european languages because of the large amount of (then still pagan) slavs captured and sold into slavery by christians.

[TheMightyBuzzard]

Context is tricky. You are describing a manifestation of the 'Scunthorpe problem', and some people do not regard context as a suitable defence.

Personally, I think context is important, but I am also aware that some people strongly argue the opposite, and there is no clear resolution to the dispute. Of course, I think I'm right, but that means nothing to someone equally convinced that I am wrong.

Wise heads on both sides will seek to find ways to de-escalate the conflict.

No, wise heads teach their children about Sticks and Stones instead of narcissistically screaming their fool head off. Yes, it is absolutely absurd levels of narcissism to think ~350,000,000 people should adjust the way they speak to spare your feelings.

Furthermore, if you've been to war or been actually tortured, you're entitled to some consideration of your PTSD. Not enough to change the entire nation's language usage but enough that we won't go around intentionally bringing it up in front of you. If you haven't, you do not have PTSD. You have a mind that was crippled so badly by your raising and "education" that you should not be allowed to interact with the public; a nice jacket with straps on the arms and a padded room would serve you better.

[TheMightyBuzzard]

According to followers of the philosophy of the son of a first-century carpenter, apparently it isn't. It is possible to be kind without expecting anything in return.
Modern psychologists point out that just being kind is good for your well-being (American Psychological Association - article has extensive citations).

Forcing others to submit to inconvenience for the sake of someone else is not kindness. Demanding others be inconvenienced for your own sake is not either. Charity is only charity when it is your own choice, otherwise it's oppression.