GNOME Mutter 46.2 Rolls Out To Ubuntu 24.04 Users, Experimental VRR Remains Rough

[You-]

It's true that extensions break, but they are not considered an official feature after all. And if you use a distro like Fedora or Ubuntu your extensions have been patched by the time you move to a new GNOME version 99% of the time anyway. And what do you consider the insanity of GTK4? Vastly imrpoved performance maybe?

You dont need to give him daylight. He has nothing to back up him claim for enterprise distros. He needs to show extensions breaking in the enterprise distros under their stability guarantees.

From what he has posted, I would suggest he does not use an enterprise distro and probably doesnt use gnome either.

[skeevy420]

I like how you are reality have never met. it does however lead to poor quality trolling.

How many enterprise stability distributions offer a default desktop other than gnome?

RHEL? Gnome
Ubuntu LTS? Gnome
Debian? Gnome
SUSE? Gnome.

Even historically non-gnome places like SUSE have Gnome as their desktop for their enterprise offering.

Go figure that distributions that only upgrade GNOME every 2 to 4 years have better GNOME experiences than distributions that upgrade GNOME every six months .

KDE or any other desktop can just not be upgraded, only bug and exploit fixed, and that'd be sufficient for enterprise needs. For a long time KDE offered LTS releases that would have been perfect for enterprise needs but no one picked it up as a primary desktop environment. It's not shocking since RHEL and Ubuntu both use GNOME and a lot of distributions copy RHEL and Ubuntu like those are the only distributions that matter. SUSE enterprise might as well be SLED Hat (especially Liberty). That's lead to commercial ententes, like AMD, only supporting that flavor of Linux which indirectly affects KDE usage even further. It's a circle of suck if you're KDE or any other non-GNOME desktop.

If we stretch enterprise to just mean commercial offerings, Valve with the Steam Deck and SteamOS might count. Might not since it isn't available for general purpose installation or purchase, only via 3rd party offerings which, while nice, aren't as nice as the real thing.

[Shadywack]

It's true that extensions break, but they are not considered an official feature after all. And if you use a distro like Fedora or Ubuntu your extensions have been patched by the time you move to a new GNOME version 99% of the time anyway. And what do you consider the insanity of GTK4? Vastly imrpoved performance maybe?

Not over Qt. There is no performance advantage at all there.

[Shadywack]

More ironic that you dont realise the enterprise stable distro releases generally stick to a single version of gnome, or even if they were to upgrade, the only extensions that will matter will be the ones they ship in their own repositories.

I think RHEL 7 and 8 used to update the desktop to a newer version, but even they have stopped. Ubuntu LTS and Debian never have. (I dont know what SUSE does).

The only version of gnome that matters to an enterprise distro is the one it ships. The only extensions that matter to it are also the ones they themselves ship, which will be in lockstep with their version of gnome.

It's fine to be defensive, but I'm talking about the irony of how Gnome doesn't care about backwards compatibility. You're emphasizing the concept of enterprise distros going with stability, while also making general assumptions about me and my character that are rather unfounded so I'll clear it up for you.

I dislike Gnome because I use enterprise distro's. At home I have a bare metal RHEL 9 server along with a separate ESXi host running 4 VM's to tinker with. At work I play in multiple environments mainly using RHEL. For my desktop use I run Nobara's new baseline which is Plasma, because Gnome sucks, along with separate SSD's loaded with Gentoo, Arch, and a spare distro hopping SSD that I rotate and play around with that's currently running Ubuntu 24.04.

The work that enterprise distro's do is separate from how the Gnome project itself works. There are so many policies that each distro (enterprise or enthusiast) set in place to prevent breakage, and the amount of work Canonical has to do to make an appealing Gnome desktop is ever increasing thanks to exactly the breakage I'm talking about. They maintain their extensions, and stick with older versions, yes. That just outlines the disconnect between the Gnome project's development and the concept of stability, hence the irony.

No need to be a defensive jackass about it, Gnome just sucks, and opinions are okay.

[You-]

Go figure that distributions that only upgrade GNOME every 2 to 4 years have better GNOME experiences than distributions that upgrade GNOME every six months .

Now explain why the LTS version of Kubuntu did not ship with KDE6.

(and I do not agree your point - I upgrade to every gnome release. However, I do not use an enterprise distro. I prefer the normal 6 monthly upgrade cadence).

KDE or any other desktop can just not be upgraded, only bug and exploit fixed, and that'd be sufficient for enterprise needs. For a long time KDE offered LTS releases that would have been perfect for enterprise needs but no one picked it up as a primary desktop environment.

You need to ask yourself why didnt they pick it up? Theoretically anything is possible (as an example, Samsung managed to even use Enlightenment libraries out of all things in their products).

Someone has to put money behind their backing for KDE before you can say it is "sufficient for enterprise needs" and the question is why companies almost always back gnome instead.

It's not shocking since RHEL and Ubuntu both use GNOME and a lot of distributions copy RHEL and Ubuntu like those are the only distributions that matter. SUSE enterprise might as well be SLED Hat (especially Liberty). That's lead to commercial ententes, like AMD, only supporting that flavor of Linux which indirectly affects KDE usage even further. It's a circle of suck if you're KDE or any other non-GNOME desktop.

It matters because they plan to run businesses and try to make money basd on these decisions.

If we stretch enterprise to just mean commercial offerings, Valve with the Steam Deck and SteamOS might count. Might not since it isn't available for general purpose installation or purchase, only via 3rd party offerings which, while nice, aren't as nice as the real thing.

The Steam Desk having KDE is actually a very strong point. A huge multi billion dollar company thought it was worth investing in and using, so I would say that is the best come back against my posts. However here KDE is a backup and not presented front and centre as the main UI.

[intelfx]

No need to be a defensive jackass about it, Gnome just sucks, and opinions are okay.

If you don’t like people pointing out the invalidity of your opinions, perhaps it’d be best to keep them to yourself.

No need to be an offensive jackass about it, your opinions just suck, and GNOME is okay

[skeevy420]

Now explain why the LTS version of Kubuntu did not ship with KDE6.

(and I do not agree your point - I upgrade to every gnome release. However, I do not use an enterprise distro. I prefer the normal 6 monthly upgrade cadence).

Because Plasma 6.0 was a massive beta release. 6.1, which came out week before last, is the first release that a non-bleeding edge, stability focused distribution should ship. There was a bit of a kerfuffle between users wanting to stay on 5.27 and those wanting to upgrade to 6.0 on bleeding edge distributions. 5.27 is an LTS release.

Go figure that an LTS distribution is finally using the LTS release. That's pretty nice to know. Go Kubuntu!

You need to ask yourself why didnt they pick it up? Theoretically anything is possible (as an example, Samsung managed to even use Enlightenment libraries out of all things in their products).

Someone has to put money behind their backing for KDE before you can say it is "sufficient for enterprise needs" and the question is why companies almost always back gnome instead.

The simplest answer is that rolling distributions picked up the latest release version and that you'd have to go ask Ubuntu, Debian, RHEL, SUSE, etc about why they've freezed certain packages when because it isn't just KDE that's had that kind of situation happen. It even happens with Linux LTS on those kinds of enterprise distributions. You'd have to go and ask LTS why they don't always use LTS versions of software.

Kubuntu nowadays running the LTS version shows that there is some interest in running that.

It matters because they plan to run businesses and try to make money basd on these decisions.

Yes and no. Look at System76 and PopOS. They did the whole follow the leader shtick and look where it got them -- GNOME wasn't working with them so they ended up having to create their own desktop environment. The same thing happened with Budgie and GNOME. If all you plan to do is just release an app or run a service, you can follow the leader all day long. If you're creating an OS or a desktop shell and the leader doesn't want to accept your solutions, you have to do your own thing. System76 could have picked KDE, but that could have resulted in the same situations where KDE may not accept solutions Systme76 comes up with. They also have a rockstar of a dev that wrote an entire OS in Rust so there's them just being smart and utilizing their human resources as best as possible.

The Steam Desk having KDE is actually a very strong point. A huge multi billion dollar company thought it was worth investing in and using, so I would say that is the best come back against my posts. However here KDE is a backup and not presented front and centre as the main UI.

It makes sense here because so much is wrapped up in Steam in regards to libraries, hacks, and whatnot to get games to run on Linux. There's a totally different experience between using Steam BPM in Gamescope versus BPM in KDE/KWin or KDE/Gamescope in regards to scaling, HDR, and such which is why the Steam Deck is done like it is. I'm hoping that KWin picks up more HDR work to make it so KDE/KWin works as well as BPM/Gamescope.

But Valve picked KDE because it's a familiar UI, it stays stable (meaning plugins and new features don't break things), and the KDE developers are more open to playing ball with others. Folks over at KDE are very friendly and diplomatic while there are so many negative anecdotes around GNOME and their developers. Personally, I've had pretty decent experiences with practically any and every developer I've talked to. I suppose it helps to be silly and appreciative over being an asshole. Even when I disagree with them it's like, I don't like what you're doing but I appreciate you doing it.

[timrichardson]

Regarding extensions, yes they break between gnome releases but that's not relevant to Ubuntu LTS ,which doesn't change release versions.

Plus gnome extension support is maturing. All mine were fine with the move to 24.04 even when it was still beta. That wasn't true two years ago.

[logical]

"Gnome just sucks". LOL I'm so sorry it offends you so.

You're correct, opinions are OK but why do you and others who share your opinion always seem to come to a Gnome topic and bitch about how you hate it and don't use it? Your gripes aren't even remotely related to the actual topic at all. All your whining and griping about backward compatibility has been pretty much a non-issue for me and I've been using Gnome since 1.0.

It's fine to be defensive, but I'm talking about the irony of how Gnome doesn't care about backwards compatibility. You're emphasizing the concept of enterprise distros going with stability, while also making general assumptions about me and my character that are rather unfounded so I'll clear it up for you.

I dislike Gnome because I use enterprise distro's. At home I have a bare metal RHEL 9 server along with a separate ESXi host running 4 VM's to tinker with. At work I play in multiple environments mainly using RHEL. For my desktop use I run Nobara's new baseline which is Plasma, because Gnome sucks, along with separate SSD's loaded with Gentoo, Arch, and a spare distro hopping SSD that I rotate and play around with that's currently running Ubuntu 24.04.

The work that enterprise distro's do is separate from how the Gnome project itself works. There are so many policies that each distro (enterprise or enthusiast) set in place to prevent breakage, and the amount of work Canonical has to do to make an appealing Gnome desktop is ever increasing thanks to exactly the breakage I'm talking about. They maintain their extensions, and stick with older versions, yes. That just outlines the disconnect between the Gnome project's development and the concept of stability, hence the irony.

No need to be a defensive jackass about it, Gnome just sucks, and opinions are okay.

[QwertyChouskie]

It is also notable that Ubuntu has opted to disabling the linux-drm-syncobj-v1 support as part of not enabling any major new features in the Ubuntu 24.04 LTS SRUs.

Bummer. Was looking forward to having explicit sync on my hybrid AMD APU+Nvidia dGPU laptop.