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Firefox 126 Available - Adds "Linux" To The Android User Agent String

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  • #11
    Originally posted by avis View Post
    We've had this discussion a billion times already.

    When people say/use/talk about "Linux", they mean Linux distros with userspace, not just the kernel alone. The kernel alone can do nothing, it's an API to your hardware. Android has almost nothing from the average Linux distro, not even the kernel itself, as it uses a special very patched old version. Lastly, the Linux kernel in Android can be replaced by anything which provides the same APIs. Android is not "Linux", period. Some bits and pieces, maybe.

    Secondly, no one really cares except for purists and devoted Linux fans for whom Android is "a Linux success story", except it's a failure story because the mainline kernel looks to be completely incompatible with anything reliable/enterprisy/mass produced. And the mainline kernel is found neither in RHEL, nor in Android.
    You're talking about an imaginary OS that does not exist. In what ways are Guix and Nix and Alpine and Void musl similar to Tiny Core Linux and to Obarun and to Slackware? Other than a somewhat similar kernel in some cases? And that's not always even true - Debian GNU/Linux is a lot more like Debian Hurd than it is like Dragora. The value of the purists is to force people like you to define your terms so that you aren't just speaking gibberish, and so that you aren't giving advice as generally useful that might actually work on one distro while utterly demolishing another distro.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by andyprough View Post

      I'm assuming you are talking about the mobile browser's desktop view. In my experience it fails to switch to a real desktop view just as often on Brave's mobile browser, which probably indicates all chromium-based browsers fail as well. Which tells me that the problem is more likely on the end of the web devs. I could be wrong though, not my area of expertise.
      the browser I currently use is cromite which does pretty good, the only issue i've run into is sites that trigger mobile mode via device viewport width which can usually be solved by rotating the screen first, not great but not terrible, only so much you can do to workaround poor website design.‚Äč

      Originally posted by avis View Post

      We've had this discussion a billion times already.

      When people say/use/talk about "Linux", they mean Linux distros with userspace, not just the kernel alone. The kernel alone can do nothing, it's an API to your hardware. Android has almost nothing from the average Linux distro, not even the kernel itself, as it uses a special very patched old version. Lastly, the Linux kernel in Android can be replaced by anything which provides the same APIs. Android is not "Linux", period. Some bits and pieces, maybe.

      Secondly, no one really cares except for purists and devoted Linux fans for whom Android is "a Linux success story", except it's a failure story because the mainline kernel looks to be completely incompatible with anything reliable/enterprisy/mass produced. And the mainline kernel is found neither in RHEL, nor in Android.
      Android can work perfectly fine on linux-git, it uses a special filesystem layout sure, but executing applications, selinux, perms system etc, is all actually pretty standard stuff. If you install termux on android you will quickly find yourself quite at home, if you install x11 or a wayland compositor on android you will find that it's actually pretty much the same thing. Many things wont work because of the file system layout, but many things actually will work fine, stuff that relys on XDG instead of hard coded paths generally work pretty well. (it's funny because next to no gui rust apps work thanks to rust crates making wrong assumptions when the compiler see the android target)

      Android devices rely on non upstreamed stuff a lot, but that's up to the vendor. you can run Android, and yes, Android with GAPPS, on a vanilla linux kernel.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by avis View Post
        When people say/use/talk about "Linux", they mean Linux distros with userspace, not just the kernel alone.
        Be careful with the weasel-word "people". Who, exactly? You seem to be referring to the small group of desktop/laptop users around the world who consider "Linux" as an alternative to Windows or macOS, and post on user forums meant for them. Even then, I imagine many of the more technical users in that group understand that "Linux" is a shorthand and not fully descriptive. Meanwhile, most uses of Linux are outside that group: in internet servers, phones, and other devices.

        Originally posted by avis View Post
        The kernel alone can do nothing, it's an API to your hardware.
        This dismissive statement hints to the source of your confusion. Linux is not "an API", it's an operating system. Add a tiny little userland (e.g. BusyBox) and you get a very full operating system experience that would far exceed what most Unix operating systems could do 20 years ago. Install, say, Ubuntu or Fedora, and by far the piece of software there with the most lines of code is Linux. It's very appropriate to consider it as the centerpiece of any Linux distro, and the same is true for Android. The fact that it runs so well in Android may make it seem invisible, but we know better.

        Android is a Linux-based operating system. Moreover, it's a Linux distro. In fact, it's the most-used consumer Linux distro.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by avis View Post

          We've had this discussion a billion times already.

          When people say/use/talk about "Linux", they mean Linux distros with userspace, not just the kernel alone. The kernel alone can do nothing, it's an API to your hardware. Android has almost nothing from the average Linux distro, not even the kernel itself, as it uses a special very patched old version. Lastly, the Linux kernel in Android can be replaced by anything which provides the same APIs. Android is not "Linux", period. Some bits and pieces, maybe.

          Secondly, no one really cares except for purists and devoted Linux fans for whom Android is "a Linux success story", except it's a failure story because the mainline kernel looks to be completely incompatible with anything reliable/enterprisy/mass produced. And the mainline kernel is found neither in RHEL, nor in Android.
          kernel version 6.1 isn't that old and statically compiled binaries works as is most of the time when copied to the smartphone. AOSP is a Linux distro.

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          • #15
            Busybox and one of the console apps are all needed to make Android a complete Linux system. Android kernels are just Linux kernels with added device drivers and memory/power management code. Android is a Linux system, actually it is a great Linux system.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by mrg666 View Post
              Busybox and one of the console apps are all needed to make Android a complete Linux system. Android kernels are just Linux kernels with added device drivers and memory/power management code. Android is a Linux system, actually it is a great Linux system.
              Well, not that great. But great in terms of user base and product diversity, I agree on that.

              Sailfish and meego and webos and others are in life support. Those had better concepts and some were even quite FOSS friendly.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by timofonic View Post

                Well, not that great. But great in terms of user base and product diversity, I agree on that.

                Sailfish and meego and webos and others are in life support. Those had better concepts and some were even quite FOSS friendly.
                Yeah, great at what it is for ... mobile devices with touch screens. Otherwise I am obsessed with running the latest mainline kernel on my desktop systems.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by mrg666 View Post

                  Yeah, great at what it is for ... mobile devices with touch screens. Otherwise I am obsessed with running the latest mainline kernel on my desktop systems.
                  also TVs, I personally also don't actually mind it that much in desktop mode

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                  • #19
                    they added back the extensions? like it use to be before the "new" crap interface

                    edit: android version of course

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by X_m7 View Post
                      I ended up changing Firefox's user agent to that of the Android version on my PinePhone instead of just having "Mobile" on there like in the distro's default settings lol.
                      What's the exact string?

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