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  • X_m7
    replied
    Originally posted by andyprough View Post

    I don't think you should just be thankful for integer scaling. I think you should consider your purchases wisely in advance and return products that don't work well with your setup (or with your eyes), the same thing I've thought about most computer device complaints since I started using them in the early 1980s. When I started using GNU/Linux in the late 90's, we had "HCL's" - hardware compatibility lists - and no sane person would build a system without thoroughly checking and re-checking the lists and asking others for advice based on their experience with similar devices. Now? "Everything must work, and it must work the way I think it should work". That's a great thought, but it's not reality.

    Anyway, no one cares what someone like me thinks about this, so have a good weekend everyone.
    I did actually try that sort of approach when I was looking for a new laptop last year, and in particular I wanted a 15-16in screen with integer scaling, somewhat performant graphics that's not NVIDIA AND a non-exorbitant price for the performance/capability, and bloody hell that limited my options considerably. For the screen in particular my options are just 1080p for 100% or flat out 4K for 200%, and the latter naturally means exorbitant pricing, and anything in the middle goes out the window too (like the Framework 16 with 1600p for example), and even if I look at the 13-14in laptops my options would be either the 1366x768 type stuff for 100% or a bit over 1440p for 200% (maybe 4K for 300%?), while the fad at that size seems to be 1080p or so.

    And then there's the graphics, while the lower end gaming laptops do tend to have the right screen resolution wise they also tend to be polluted with NVIDIA's stink, and even if I were to settle on just the Radeon 680M/780M the stuff I can find equipped with them tend to be super fancy laptops with the wrong screen, priced way too high given that I'm looking at them as a performance compromise already, and/or they're ALSO saddled with NVIDIA baggage.

    So, all that considered, I ended up getting an HP Omen 16 with a Radeon RX 6650M plus a 1080p screen, and it was also discounted quite a bit so it met the above requirements. While I know it doesn't have anywhere near perfect Linux support (another compromise I made, if I didn't I'd have absolutely no viable options then), I assumed that the default power profile, fan curve etc would be reasonable, which was true with the old MSI laptop I had, plus this Omen doesn't have RGB anyway so that's one less thing to worry about. Little did I know, the fan curve is rather stupid in that for a CPU only load the fans will take its sweet time (like 10 mins) while the CPU is going ham at 95+C the whole time, plus the GPU gets throttled from its standard 105W to 35W after some time regardless of temperatures. On top of that the built in microphone didn't work, and the MediaTek WiFi chip turned out to be even more garbage than I thought it could possibly be (download speeds drop to sub 1Mbps in WiFi 6 mode unless I can somehow make it use WiFi 5, but the best I could do with the Linux drivers was make it drop to 2.4GHz). Now I managed to get fixes or figure out workarounds for all of those eventually, but damn it I could have avoided them if I didn't have to worry about stupid screen resolutions or painful proprietary drivers, fucking hell.

    /rant over

    Anyway, it's been great to see all the improvements coming in, maybe by the time I need to replace this laptop I'd have more choices given the fractional scaling improvements, NVK+Zink, Intel Arc graphics being an additional option and so on.

    Leave a comment:


  • andyprough
    replied
    Originally posted by bug77 View Post
    Independent screen scaling has been the poster child for Wayland for years (together with being secure). If you think we should just be thankful for integer scaling, read Nate's post above.
    I don't think you should just be thankful for integer scaling. I think you should consider your purchases wisely in advance and return products that don't work well with your setup (or with your eyes), the same thing I've thought about most computer device complaints since I started using them in the early 1980s. When I started using GNU/Linux in the late 90's, we had "HCL's" - hardware compatibility lists - and no sane person would build a system without thoroughly checking and re-checking the lists and asking others for advice based on their experience with similar devices. Now? "Everything must work, and it must work the way I think it should work". That's a great thought, but it's not reality.

    Anyway, no one cares what someone like me thinks about this, so have a good weekend everyone.

    Leave a comment:


  • bug77
    replied
    Originally posted by andyprough View Post
    I'm so tired of the 4k-fractional-scaling weenies bombarding every single freaking comment thread.

    Just thought I'd get that off my chest. Carry on with your whining. Besides, 4k is ancient history, if you aren't using an 8k monitor you should be relegated to some caveman section of the site.
    Independent screen scaling has been the poster child for Wayland for years (together with being secure). If you think we should just be thankful for integer scaling, read Nate's post above.

    Leave a comment:


  • bug77
    replied
    Originally posted by user1 View Post

    This sounds a bit concerning, because Chromium based browsers (with native Wayland flag enabled) have been working flawlessly for me on Gnome for about 2.5 years already. What exactly doesn't work well in Chromium Wayland on Plasma 6?
    For me, it takes seconds to register mouse or keyboard input, unless I have a 2nd Chromium window opened and on top on my secondary screen. If it's not on top, inputs start to lag again. Super-weird.
    Weirder still, that doesn't happen to Vivaldi, which is also Chromium-based.

    Leave a comment:


  • ngraham
    replied
    1080p at 13.3" will require a different scale factor than it will at 27". Fractional scaling isn't about this resolution or that resolution... it's about the combination of resolution and physical size--the DPI/PPI value. And monitors have wildly varying DPI, from good ol' 96 all the way up to 300+. Furthermore, even if you are fortunate enough to have a screen that was designed for 200% scale, preferences regarding size and density vary. Members of the the "only integer scaling exists, buy a better monitor" crowd need to join the real world.

    For these reasons, supporting fractional scaling is important, and Plasma 6.0 actually includes a very large number of improvements for fractional scale use cases. Personally I'm daily-driving a dual-screen setup with a 4K 14" screen at 225% scale plus a 1080p 27" screen at 110% scale, and it's totally boringly usable with the apps I use.

    Leave a comment:


  • user1
    replied
    Originally posted by jeisom View Post
    I was simply addressing the "decade old hardware" part. I agree that in many cases 1080p is a perfectly fine resolution. Shoot the Steam Deck is 720p.
    Well, if the hardware with such resolutions is still being manufactured to this day, imo it's misleading to call it "decade old hardware".

    Originally posted by jeisom View Post
    I am more interested personally in pixel density with text. I have a 32" monitor 4k monitor and I don't think I could go to 1440p at that diagonal. 1440 on a 27" and 24" would probably be fine for me. Anything under 24" would probaly be fine for text rendering. When gaming or video playback at the same sizes 1080p would probably work quite in most cases as well.
    My current monitor is 1080p 23.8 inch (I don't want anything bigger). I'd probably by a 4K 23.8 inch monitor sometimes in the future when I'll have a more powerful GPU and I'll simply set the scaling to 200%. Basically, I want everything to look the same in size, just sharper.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeisom
    replied
    Originally posted by user1 View Post

    And? 4K monitors also came out around 20 years ago. That doesn't change the fact that 1080p monitors are still perfectly fine for many people. You don't seem to realise that with higher resolutions there are also some downsides like lower fps in games and the fact that scaling (fractional or non fractional, doesn't matter) is still not perfect in virtually all desktop environments on any OS.
    I was simply addressing the "decade old hardware" part. I agree that in many cases 1080p is a perfectly fine resolution. Shoot the Steam Deck is 720p.

    I am more interested personally in pixel density with text. I have a 32" monitor 4k monitor and I don't think I could go to 1440p at that diagonal. 1440 on a 27" and 24" would probably be fine for me. Anything under 24" would probaly be fine for text rendering. When gaming or video playback at the same sizes 1080p would probably work quite in most cases as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • user1
    replied
    Originally posted by jeisom View Post

    I hate to break it to you, but the first 1080p monitors came out around 20 years ago.

    edit: Num of years
    And? 4K monitors also came out around 20 years ago. That doesn't change the fact that 1080p monitors are still perfectly fine for many people. You don't seem to realise that with higher resolutions there are also some downsides like lower fps in games and the fact that scaling (fractional or non fractional, doesn't matter) is still not perfect in virtually all desktop environments on any OS.

    Leave a comment:


  • RejectModernity
    replied
    Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post

    What...? 1080p monitors are still the vast majority of monitors that exist in the world. They're cheap, look good if they're IPS, and are easier to drive at high framerates. 1080p is not "decade old hardware" as it's still outselling every other resolution of monitor. And even after that, 1440p is the second most common monitor type, and it doesn't require fractional scaling for most people, the obvious exception being those with vision impairments.
    2016 called and it wants its resolution back.

    Leave a comment:


  • andyprough
    replied
    I'm so tired of the 4k-fractional-scaling weenies bombarding every single freaking comment thread.

    Just thought I'd get that off my chest. Carry on with your whining. Besides, 4k is ancient history, if you aren't using an 8k monitor you should be relegated to some caveman section of the site.

    Leave a comment:

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