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Firefox Is Going To Try And Ship With Wayland Enabled By Default

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Hibbelharry View Post

    Just google "Windows 11 MPO" and you'll see some of the latest issues across als GPU vendors.
    From what I see a very small percentage of Windows users are affected. Out of many dozens of people who I know use Windows daily, no one has ever been affected.

    The issue exists but it's far from widespread.


    • #32
      What, oh that's what decelerated sharply today. That was a passing moment of pain!

      Looking forward to XScreensaver in Wayland. Also...why is Firefox still stopping blanking with (some video provider who throws interstitial ads) those video IPs mapped to localhost? Also no fullscreen video so... Is there an about:config tip I missed?


      • #33
        Originally posted by ssokolow View Post
        And then the compositor developers get blamed and yelled at by users for windows which have SSDs wrapped around CSDs. It's only a viable solution for situations like what the Arcan developer did a proof-of-concept of, where power users can manually tune how much compositor-level cropping is needed to remove the CSDs and shove the headerbar into a hamburger menu on the SSD.
        Except by history you know this is not going to work well.

        Yes winamp clones start you going hell we are in trouble. Yes these applications are CSD most start before wayland exists and all these winamp clones and others when the user changes themes inside the application the dimensions headerbar changes. Yes those using winamp clones even for X11 Windows managers complained about wrapping SSD around the winamp clone CSD.

        This kind of gets the the point users need to be trained not to trust headerbar and trust somewhere less like the taskmanager bar that the session management in fact controls the output of..

        Originally posted by ssokolow View Post
        Hell, we already have developers of applications like LibrePCB hard-coding their apps to "give me XWayland or give me death" semantics when encountering Wayland because, in their eyes, that's currently the only reasonable solution to the icon problem. (LibrePCB uses a LibreOffice-esque "multiple interrelated tools in a single process" architecture and they don't consider it reasonable to be forced to set up multiple applications with multiple .desktop files and complex IPC just to have correct icons.)
        But then these people also complain when taskbars go and stack the windows from the same application under a single tab because now the program they are looking for has disappeared because what they were looking for was a window from application with different icon to everything else.

        This icon problem is a lot more complicated than you are making out. In some ways there should be single application icon but for applications like LibrePCD and Libreoffice sub icon option.

        The .desktop forcing a application wide icon is most likely the right thing. The feature libreoffice/librePCD would find useful is a subicon.

        So libreoffice icon with libreoffice writer icon after it. You need application wide icon to display in the task manager.

        Lot of ways applications like librePCD and libreoffice have been ignoring the issues having just a single icon to display has been causing. Of course sub icon would still require some counter measure to spamming icon changes.

        ssokolow basically there is difference to what you need for task management/session management and what some applications like librePCD and Libreoffice want todo. task management/session management 1 applicaiton= 1 icon and they need this to equal 1 icon not many. Then LibrePCD and Libreoffice want a icon per sub section of their application.

        Think about it sub icon solution on taskbar you would be able to display the icon of the application and the icon of the sub part of the application at the same time. So user by looking icons would have its this application in this section.

        As you said this session management problem is a real problem. Issue here is a conflict between what you need for session management and what application developers would like to-do. Yes the wayland developers have put hands strictly on the side of session management.

        ssokolow I do want your serous answer. My point of view the main application icon that displayed in task manager and other places that the session manager is providing data to the application should only get one chance to set that icon for it complete operational runtime.

        Sub icons/changing icons while applications are running this should be a optional feature that wayland compositors are free to go we are not supporting this we are only displaying the main application icon. Particular because of the historic cases where applications have been given the means to change their icon and then denial of serviced the interface by changing this rapidly sometimes by code typos. Remember this rapid changing of icons is illegal under some cases due to making interfaces not usable due to flicker by people who should not be discriminated against legally for the application type.

        This is not a easy problem to solve.

        What wayland compositors are doing forcing the main application wide icon to be displayed is not completely wrong. Changing the icon so making the application icon wide icon no longer displayed to user makes it harder for user to kill application if it locks up by graphical task/session managers.

        This is most likely a case that neither party is right and both need to find a workable middle that will be better for users long term.


        • #34
          Originally posted by gbcox View Post
          Well, let's hope they pay a bit of attention to fit and finish and fix the titlebar to show the proper Fx icon instead of the generic yellow circle with a W in it for Wayland. Nightly 121 still displays the generic W.
          that bug is already reported and if i'm not wrong is fixed in upcomming versions


          • #35
            Originally posted by pkese View Post

            And a step backward as well.
            Wayland doesn't let browsers restore windows across multiple desktops.
   has no problems with that.
            Yes, they can


            • #36
              Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

              This is most likely a case that neither party is right and both need to find a workable middle that will be better for users long term.
              X has WM_CLASS to bundle windows so maybe something like a WM_CLASS_ICON would help?


              • #37
                Originally posted by slalomsk8er View Post
                X has WM_CLASS to bundle windows so maybe something like a WM_CLASS_ICON would help?
                There is problem even under X11.

                Take KDE system monitor application part. This is going to display the icon of the application in the .desktop even under X11. So I have libreoffice writer open under X11 the writer icon does not appear in KDE system monitor because the libreoffice general icon appears. Lets say writer has frozen up on user and user goes into system monitor attempting to kill it there is no icon alignment.

                When you serous-ally look at this we have had a mistake for quite some time. X11/Windows/Mac OS/ Xerox parc(yes right back) mistake a Window only has space for a single application icon.

                Wayland compositors are forcing use of the icon uses by the session management there are advantages to this. Majority of applications this is the right thing todo.

                Now there are applications that have windows for usability that displaying icon to say what it is would be useful.. Now people also complain that taskbars when set to stack icon go and stack like libroffice writer with libroffice calc and so on this is session management again. Also the session management has not been given the information to say hey writer icon window should not be stacked with a calc icon window. Then there are other applications or users who want them to stack based on application not by the icon on the window.

                There is an argument that could be made for extending .desktop file to allow application to declare sub window icons with if they should or should not stack. This would also mean application would be declaring their window icons in advance. Yes this would add the possibility of detection of matching icon conflict problems.

                With the historic denial of service around these icons you would want to lock
                1) application session icon is locked and set for the complete time the application is running.
                2) sub window icon is locked as soon as the window is created.

                Something to remember is windows, mac os, X11 solutions... most of them have not had correctly functional session management so they have not worked on dealing with this icon problem.

                Yes we writer libreoffice writer/calc or openoffice writer/calc... Notice two words [application] [sub part] we really do need a icon system that is [application/session management icon] [sub icon]

                Yes the sub icon bit even under X11 need work so taskbars do the right thing and stack them correctly.

                Basically there are problems here. This is case a lot with Wayland majority of time items that Wayland break there are issues in the X11 implementation that need fixing.


                • #38
                  Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
                  ssokolow I do want your serous answer. My point of view the main application icon that displayed in task manager and other places that the session manager is providing data to the application should only get one chance to set that icon for it complete operational runtime.
                  As a developer, I'd personally be fine with that as long as it's done in a way that doesn't shut out portable apps and people running test builds from ~/src/whatever without first adding a .desktop file to ~/.local/share/applications/

                  (eg. I don't use KDE Plasma's support for putting progress indications in taskbar entries in any of my creations because it's based on the Unity DBus Launcher API, which requires an installed .desktop file to bind the application to the name the API takes in and I only use features I can iterate on with non-installed git checkouts in ~/src/whatever/.)

                  However, I do recognize that many other developers have taken a stance along the lines of "We're used to the problems the current solution has. We refuse to accept any solution to the things we're used to not working which regresses the things we're used to working."


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
                    There is no standard way run run a .desktop file.
                    'gio launch' should work.


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by JanC View Post
                      'gio launch' should work.
                      That if you are using gnome desktop.

                      From what I can gather, .desktop files are shortcuts that allow application's settings to be customized. For instance, I have lots of them in my /usr/share/applications/ folder. If I open that fo...

                      And then its not the recommend way. I did not write it was not possible. I wrote there is no standard way.

                      gio launch can fail to work.