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  • Originally posted by kmansoft View Post
    ​You mean as a Linux user I'm not worthy of using current generation hardware?
    The bad news is be it AMD, Intel, Nvidia the latest generation always have a risk of being nightmare. This is not just a Linux user thing.

    Nvidia high end cards being priced that high that normal users cannot afford them means that most normal users don't see their problem.

    Something to remember the highest end Nvidia card of a generation of cards is released 12 months before the common consumer affordable versions appear. Guess who gets the hell yes the parties who buy the most expensive Nvidia cards early.

    AMD and Intel highest end card being cheaper means its lot more simple to get in on those before they have 12 months in real world use to iron out common bugs.

    Yes the affordable option comes with its own form of problem.

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    • Originally posted by DanL View Post

      You do know that this forum allows users to choose how many replies they want to see on a page, right?​ 131 comments and I'm only on page 4.
      Ha, finally a reason to actually log in to my premium account!

      And in case others don't want to waste 10 clicks searching:
      User Settings > Account > Conversation Detail Options > Posts per Page

      Comment


      • Originally posted by hwertz View Post
        Especially Nvidia cards -- they love to say how poorly supported they are in Linux, despite Nvidia having excellent drivers with full OpenGL, full Vulkan, and full CUDA support. Clearly you should pull your card and replace it so you can run a desktop that visually looks the same as the one you have now but is internally using newer technology.
        [..]
        As it stands now, Wayland is PRETTY CLOSE to reaching feature parity; and they may be able to get it done in time. The attitude that it just doesn't matter if it does or not, because people don't REALLY need those missing features, is pretty galling though. And the attitude that Nvidia cards are junk and "everybody" knows they shouldn't be used in Linux. On the contrary, Nvidia has always had excellent Linux drivers (Wayland aside), it's just in the last 3 or so years that Mesa has improved enough that it's fair (CUDA aside) to say they have feature parity on AMD etc. devices, in present day indeed I would recommend getting an AMD device if possible. That said, I personally have a GTX1650 in my desktop -- little choice, it's got the 75W PCIe slot and no additional power connectors, AMD does not make a single modern desktop card that works within that power budget.
        It may not be a problem for LTS Ubuntu users, but with kernel updates every few days in Fedora it just sucks to hope the Nvidia driver will work with it.

        Of course AMD was also bad until they started their mainlining efforts in ~2017. I watched it get better and better through the RX 560, 5500XT and 7600 cards.
        And I bought the RX 560 (for EUR 128,99) only because my GTX 660 was in fact unwilling to cooperate with Fedora in a reliable way.
        So if it's just about not dual booting Windows for a little gaming, one should indeed just buy AMD for Linux and be happy. CUDA is more a "developer thing" and as such relevant to those use cases, but then you might simply not care about recent software, mainstream desktop use or even security and be happy with choosing the distribution that avoids the driver hassle.​

        It's relatively cozy in the PC space, but here's a good and sad example why we (should) want mainline kernel drivers for everything:
        https://blog.mobian.org/posts/2023/0...eight-dilemma/ (TL;DR: The Pinephone is already dead because nobody wanted to upstream any patches after hacking all functionality one could wish for into now old LTS kernels - but we have plenty of different distros to choose from built on top of that dying mess)

        On PCIe slot powered GPUs: I'm afraid nowadays we shall choose board and CPU with integrated graphics support for that purpose. Without Nvidia one has simply one other choice: Intel Arc A380. It should have acceptable mainline driver support by now.

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        • Originally posted by Weasel View Post
          One word: CUDA.
          But it's true for mainstream desktop use and gaming. CUDA is a special requirement. And there's more than just Ubuntu, RHEL, SLES and whatever else moves slow enough to make Nvidias closed driver bareable.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
            This is simple miss.
            Try to by a new system without a intel or AMD GPU you will notice you get to server/workstation CPU before that is the case. Like all AM5 cpus include APU. Same with all your current generation Intel CPUs containing igpu that are not workstation class. Yes AMD threadripper 7000.
            So the reality is most people will be able to use their computer even if the Nvidia GPU is 100 percent bricked if their system is relatively new.
            Its very important to get the AMD/Intel GPU drivers working because like it or not they have the biggest market share. With Nvidia mostly being a subset inside the AMD/Intel market share.
            Majority of distributions users not give distribution reason to bend knee to Nvidia because not having Nvidia support is not going to make users computer totally not usable. Same applies to Gnome/KDE and so on.
            yes i know. no one needs Nvidia for desktop linux usage.

            people in this forum report they use nvidia for cuda with AMD/INTEL iGPU for desktop use.

            so Nvidia is death outside of CUDA... and even this on my vega64 and AMD PRO W7900 PyTorch reports the ROCm/HIP stack as "CUDA"
            Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

            Comment


            • Originally posted by kmansoft View Post

              I tried Ubuntu and Fedora, are those not mainstream enough?

              I also tried running a third party kernel (xen I think) and also tried Ubuntu's latest mainline kernel - the bug was still there. So I had to sell my AMD and purchase NVIDIA, which worked flawlessly.

              And as I wrote above, the bug is still there today (or was, a few months ago, doubt anything's changed though).



              ​You mean as a Linux user I'm not worthy of using current generation hardware?
              Your keep on talking "latest mainline kernel" shows you are totally unaware that the actual officially supported AMD driver is supposed to be downloaded from AMD.com and use the distribution-provided kernel. https://www.phoronix.com/news/Radeon...re-Linux-23.20

              This is why I said one would need to wait a while for "best out-of-box" experience. The need to download driver manually does not fulfill the requirement of "out-of-box".

              Comment


              • Originally posted by billyswong View Post

                Your keep on talking "latest mainline kernel" shows you are totally unaware that the actual officially supported AMD driver is supposed to be downloaded from AMD.com and use the distribution-provided kernel. https://www.phoronix.com/news/Radeon...re-Linux-23.20

                This is why I said one would need to wait a while for "best out-of-box" experience. The need to download driver manually does not fulfill the requirement of "out-of-box".
                I wanted to use that but they did not have a version which supported my non lts Ubuntu. I don't run lts, preferring more fresh software.

                Just imagine if on windows they only supported windows 10 but not 11.

                I did manage to bypass the distro check but then the driver failed to compile.

                I paid for their hardware, it's supposed to support Linux, I'm even running perhaps the most popular Linux distro of all - still it would not work.

                ​​​​​​Just how much was I supposed to endure for the money I paid, for the amd hardware?

                Oh and there was no indication that the freezes bug was not present in the amd pro driver anyway.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Neuro-Chef View Post
                  It may not be a problem for LTS Ubuntu users, but with kernel updates every few days in Fedora it just sucks to hope the Nvidia driver will work with it.

                  Of course AMD was also bad until they started their mainlining efforts in ~2017. I watched it get better and better through the RX 560, 5500XT and 7600 cards.
                  ....
                  On PCIe slot powered GPUs: I'm afraid nowadays we shall choose board and CPU with integrated graphics support for that purpose. Without Nvidia one has simply one other choice: Intel Arc A380. It should have acceptable mainline driver support by now.
                  Yeah I know that all too well, I'm running Ubuntu LTS now but I ran gentoo for a bit, I had like a Geforce 4MX back then (which kind of sucked since it was really a Geforce2-style GPU rebadged). It was always "fun" putting of updating the kernel or occasionally xorg because the nvidia drivers had not kept up.

                  Yeah it's amazing how much the Mesa drivers improved in general the last 5 or so years -- AMD, Intel GPUs (even the older ones, it went from "most games etc. won't run on it" to "I wonder if the framerate will be good enough", they are still slow but the compliance improved dramatically.. and they actually got a healthy 20-30% speed bump a couple years ago.) I'd heartily recommend getting an AMD GPU -- I've had all 3, Nvidia GTX1650 in my desktop, I very recently had a notebook with Ryzen 3450U, and currently a Tigerlake notebook with Intel Xe. All run quite well but the Ryzen really ran surprisingly well especially given the fairly low power draw of the mobile one I had.

                  Yeah, I got the GTX1650 since needless to say an Ivy Bridge integrated GPU is pretty sad; as I say it's surprising how many games it began being able to run with recent Mesa releases, Crocus is pretty amazing, but the framerate from this GPU needless to say isn't. If I were building from scratch, I'd make sure I had enough power for a GPU with additional power (if I wanted to add a card later), AND make sure the AMD motherboard had video outputs so I could put a Ryzen with GPU in it, they perform pretty nicely.

                  Yes, indeed, I'm using a Mobile Intel Xe, given the performance of that much lower-end example of this GPU series, I'd expect the A380 would have quite acceptable performance.
                  Last edited by hwertz; 12 October 2023, 02:04 AM.

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                  • Originally posted by avis View Post

                    So not a single effing actual real case. Thanks for confirming.

                    I don't understand why you posted all these absolutely irrelevant links though. I asked for something specific and you completely failed.

                    You could have left your insults elsewhere.
                    It is literally shown how to hack X11 and it is recommended by the distributions to disable GUI access on servers because of that. After all these, only and idiot gets hacked by running X11 and only an idiot still questions this. Choose which one are you. Oh, both ways lead to the same conclusion, my bad.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by mrg666 View Post

                      It is literally shown how to hack X11 and it is recommended by the distributions to disable GUI access on servers because of that. After all these, only and idiot gets hacked by running X11 and only an idiot still questions this. Choose which one are you. Oh, both ways lead to the same conclusion, my bad.
                      You've literally failed to understand what I'm asking you.

                      Any sufficiently complex software contains vulnerabilities and can be hacked. It does not mean it's insecure.
                      Any sufficiently complex software contains vulnerabilities and can be hacked. It does not mean it's insecure.
                      Any sufficiently complex software contains vulnerabilities and can be hacked. It does not mean it's insecure.

                      Theoretical/purported X11 vulnerabilities are exactly that. If it really had been as bad as you intended to show it to be, multiple people would have been hacked daily. Yet you cannot provide a single fucking instance of a person/company having been hacked this way.

                      Wayland with its architecture (the compositor running under your credentials) is ever more theoretically insecure. Any application running directly under your credentials can do whatever it pleases with the running process.

                      And lastly you cannot stop calling others idiots. This is the last time I've seen or replied to your messages.

                      I feel sorry for your wife and children. You probably insult them daily.
                      Last edited by avis; 12 October 2023, 09:15 AM.

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