GNOME Merge Requests Opened That Would Drop X.Org Session Support

[Weasel]

arcan-cfgfs allows you to access and manipulate the internal state of Durden and its targets through a virtual file system. This means that you can use any file system tool or command to browse, read, write and execute files that represent Durden's configuration, menus, keybindings, targets and more.

With arcan-cfgfs, you can also create control sockets for specific targets, which allow you to send commands and receive events from them. This can be useful for scripting, automation or remote control purposes. For example, you can create a control socket for a terminal target and send keystrokes or commands to it, or read its output. You can also create a control socket for a graphical target and send mouse or touch events to it, or capture its contents as an image file.

To create a control socket for a target, you need to use the global/system/control/name path in the arcan-cfgfs file system, where name is the name of the socket you want to create. This will create a socket file in ARCAN_APPLTEMPBASE/durden/ipc/name, where ARCAN_APPLTEMPBASE is an environment variable that points to the temporary directory used by Arcan. The socket file can then be accessed by any tool or program that supports socket communication. The protocol used by the socket is a simple text-based format that resembles FTP commands.

The control sockets are created with the same permissions as the user running Durden, so they are only accessible by the same user or processes with higher privileges. This means that targets from different users or contexts cannot access each other's control sockets by default, unless they have some way of elevating their permissions or bypassing the file system security. However, Durden also provides a way of sharing control sockets between different targets, by using the target/control/adopt/name path in the arcan-cfgfs file system. This will allow the current target to adopt the control socket of another target with the given name, if it exists and is allowed by Durden's configuration.

By using arcan-cfgfs and control sockets, you can have full access to the GUI of any target running under Durden, as long as you have the appropriate permissions and know the name of the target. You can also share this access with other targets if you want to enable cross-application interaction or collaboration.

https://youtu.be/YWk-dmsw9Uw?si=tfsXjhsRJvKahffd&t=42

Ok, I'm sold. The fact that it uses file permissions for this is absolutely amazing and exactly what I wanted. Finally a sanely designed display server.

Thanks for the detailed explanation!

[timofonic]

Ok, I'm sold. The fact that it uses file permissions for this is absolutely amazing and exactly what I wanted. Finally a sanely designed display server.

Thanks for the detailed explanation!

You're very welcome!

I don't get the Wayland hype, Arcan is miles better and even evolves CLI in a sane way.

The main developer is also an old school (German?) developer with C64 and Amiga background, so he's not a newbie trying to be better than grey bearded geeks but a very experienced developer.

But he's not a RedHat, Microsoft or Qt employee. That's "his fault"

Their aim is make an evolved UNIX thing, dont follow thr stupid cutrent idiocracy trend of current desktop Linux.

[lsatenstein]

Fedora 39 Wayland graphics support is still beta code. It is too soon to remove x11 support. Suggest a one year delay, following 3-6 months bug free Wayland use

[kmansoft]

LOL I've been trying to use GNOME Wayland for a while now but there are two show stoppers for me:

1 - Fractional scaling for XWayland is still not merged (there have been several PRs over the last 2 years or so, but...) I use a 4K monitor and run X11 apps daily, and without this feature those apps look blurry. I guess the GNOME team just doesn't consider this important.

2 - I've got an NVIDIA GPU and Manjaro doesn't even let me enter a Wayland session. There is a Wiki for how to enable it, requires a lot of manual tweaking, which I mostly did but still missing one option somewhere (the one about preserving video memory on suspend / resume). Don't have much motivation because (1) is still a show stopper.

[kmansoft]

Or nvidia users. Not everybody is rich enough to buy an amd graphics card to replace their existing nvidia graphics card. xwayland still has tons of graphical glitches with nvidia and even when using pure wayland on nvidia there are tons of software crashes. Nvidia has been making patches in xwayland and other parts but it hasn't been merged for over 1 year now.

It's not just a question of "rich enough" (I'm sure you meant that ironically).

I was in the market for a new GPU last summer and chose NVIDIA because:

Two years ago I purchased an AMD 6800 and experienced kernel oops'es and freezes - using latest kernel, the whole thing - filed a bug report, but the AMD team didn't show much interest. There were reports from other people too.

This last summer I Googled to see if those bugs got resolved - nope, people were still seeing kernel issues with AMD even on latest kernel and everything, when using the AMD 7xxx series.

So I went with NVIDIA instead and it just works (apart from Wayland) - and works very well in both Linux and Windows (I play games).

[kmansoft]

What are the "security features" on it? That's literally what makes Wayland such a garbage toy for some of us. For example: unable to query absolute window positions or move them (this includes your scripts).

Possibly related - when running under Wayland, apps like web browsers are unable to save / restore their window location / size. Not a deal breaker but really annoying and is a "this in 2023, really?" moment. Affects both Brave Browser and Firefox for me.

[qarium]

One word: CUDA.

in python when i use PyTorch it reports my ROCm Vega64 and AMD PRO W7900 as CUDA card.

[avis]

I guess it is time to expose the real poser.

So not a single effing actual real case. Thanks for confirming.

I don't understand why you posted all these absolutely irrelevant links though. I asked for something specific and you completely failed.

You could have left your insults elsewhere.

[billyswong]

It's not just a question of "rich enough" (I'm sure you meant that ironically).

I was in the market for a new GPU last summer and chose NVIDIA because:

Two years ago I purchased an AMD 6800 and experienced kernel oops'es and freezes - using latest kernel, the whole thing - filed a bug report, but the AMD team didn't show much interest. There were reports from other people too.

This last summer I Googled to see if those bugs got resolved - nope, people were still seeing kernel issues with AMD even on latest kernel and everything, when using the AMD 7xxx series.

So I went with NVIDIA instead and it just works (apart from Wayland) - and works very well in both Linux and Windows (I play games).

AMD write their own open source driver which works with various big-name LTS Linux distributions, with their LTS kernels. The Mesa+latest kernel combination is not maintained by AMD the corporation directly. So you are blaming the wrong people.

For best out-of-box Linux experience with AMD GPUs, I've been used to the concept of only buy the last year / one-generation old chip. Buying the latest generation ASAP will face some bumpy ride - well that's true even for the recent discrete GPU cards designed by Intel.

[kmansoft]

AMD write their own open source driver which works with various big-name LTS Linux distributions, with their LTS kernels. The Mesa+latest kernel combination is not maintained by AMD the corporation directly. So you are blaming the wrong people.

I tried Ubuntu and Fedora, are those not mainstream enough?

I also tried running a third party kernel (xen I think) and also tried Ubuntu's latest mainline kernel - the bug was still there. So I had to sell my AMD and purchase NVIDIA, which worked flawlessly.

And as I wrote above, the bug is still there today (or was, a few months ago, doubt anything's changed though).

For best out-of-box Linux experience with AMD GPUs, I've been used to the concept of only buy the last year / one-generation old chip. Buying the latest generation ASAP will face some bumpy ride - well that's true even for the recent discrete GPU cards designed by Intel.

You mean as a Linux user I'm not worthy of using current generation hardware?