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System76 COSMIC Desktop Ironing Out Support For Themes, Application API

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  • #31
    Originally posted by reba View Post

    Dunno, it feels quite integrated and a bit heavy and opinionated to me. Just a feeling. Btw and because I'm currently too lazy to search: can it already be tested?
    Plasma is significantly heavier than COSMIC. What gives the idea that COSMIC is heavy?

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    • #32
      desktop fragmentation madness

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      • #33
        Originally posted by mmstick View Post

        Plasma is significantly heavier than COSMIC. What gives the idea that COSMIC is heavy?
        if I was a betting man, probably because cosmic apps resemble GTK, which is quite heavy gives the impression

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        • #34
          Originally posted by reba View Post
          I boot to TTY and then choose between Wayland KDE Plasma and labwc, depending on mood, usually, though, into labwc because it is just so dayum quick.
          There are a few options on the Wayland front recently which look very interesting.

          Time to give it a serious look again; last time (which was a while ago, I admit) I couldn't get SSH X-forwarding working reliably, and while on our remote systems I can do everything on a command line, one program in particular has a pretty usable and lightweight GUI which makes remembering a rather archaic collection of commandline switches much simpler.

          labwc looks pretty interesting, thanks for the link!

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          • #35
            All this is well and good but unless they have one or two exclusive "killer" apps for this DE, then it will be another also-ran.

            Here's the reality, these people are in the business to make money, in theory at least, yet everything they do has the feel of an idealistic young college kid that thinks nonprofits are the greatest thing since sliced bread and thinks that everything must be open source.

            In case any executive from this company stumbles upon this thread, here is some business advice:

            1) Make this COSMIC desktop closed source, proprietary and only available to your customers. If you don't then within a few months you will have spins of various distros like Ubuntu and Fedora that feature this DE and that eliminates a big selling point for your computers.

            2) Develop one or two exclusive "killer" apps that are only available for your systems.

            4) I can not emphasize this one enough, change the styling of your systems.

            Here's the thing, the name of your company and your website clearly makes, or used to make, reference to 1776, the Revolutionary War, Independence, and blah blah, some idealistic bullshit, blah blah; I suggest you embrace this 1776 idealism and run with it.

            Here's what i would do:

            1) Every system would employ a patriotic theme reminiscent of 1776 and The Grand Union Flag.

            2) I would start with 76 numbered laptops, each with a Red, White and Blue case, each with a flag on the lid and each individually numbered in the center of the flag, from 1 to 76. I would advertise them as a one time thing, sure to be a collectors' item, with the prices varying depending on which one you buy, and the 76th one being the most expensive.

            3) This theming would carry over to the OS, each one would have a custom theme and lettering to reflect the number on the lid. The 76th one would have the most ostentatious boot screen and styling.

            After that first run was a huge success, I would extend the basic premise to all my systems and then expand it for people living in other countries, by offering computers themed in the style of their countries' flag, and what i would also do is only sell computers styled with a particular countries' flag to addresses in that country, for instance only an address in Japan could buy a Japanese themed computer.

            I think you could transform System76 into a 100 million dollar company in 5 years.

            Think about it.

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            • #36
              sophisticles It's not necessary for a desktop environment to have exclusive or killer applications. The purpose of the desktop environment is to provide a stable, useful, intuitive, and efficient system interface for running desktop applications on top of it. Having some killer applications written in the desktop environment's toolkit doesn't change much. Plenty of people install Krita on GNOME, and GIMP on Plasma. A killer feature for a desktop environment would be the ability to run games at higher framerates with less input latency, supporting the latest display technologies, or being able to run efficiently on older or low power devices.

              Releasing a closed source desktop environment on an open source desktop platform is also pointless.
              Last edited by mmstick; 14 August 2023, 04:18 PM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by mmstick View Post
                sophisticles It's not necessary for a desktop environment to have exclusive or killer applications. The purpose of the desktop environment is to provide a stable, useful, intuitive, and efficient system interface for running desktop applications on top of it. Having some killer applications written in the desktop environment's toolkit doesn't change much. Plenty of people install Krita on GNOME, and GIMP on Plasma. A killer feature for a desktop environment would be the ability to run games at higher framerates with less input latency, supporting the latest display technologies, or being able to run efficiently on older or low power devices.

                Releasing a closed source desktop environment on an open source desktop platform is also pointless.
                Agree totally. The only apps cosmic really needs in the end are:

                cosmic-text-editor
                cosmic-files or file-manager
                cosmic-terminal
                cosmic-system-monitor
                cosmic-image-viewer
                cosmic-screenshot
                cosmic-app-manager (to manage flatpaks and native installs)
                ...maybe cosmic-calculator and cosmic-archive?

                For more advanced/specific app types, it should not be part of the DE project.‚Äč
                That's where KDE (and even gnome) imho went way too far with their many apps to somehow support.
                Last edited by rmfx; 15 August 2023, 01:49 AM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by mmstick View Post
                  sophisticles It's not necessary for a desktop environment to have exclusive or killer applications. The purpose of the desktop environment is to provide a stable, useful, intuitive, and efficient system interface for running desktop applications on top of it. Having some killer applications written in the desktop environment's toolkit doesn't change much. Plenty of people install Krita on GNOME, and GIMP on Plasma. A killer feature for a desktop environment would be the ability to run games at higher framerates with less input latency, supporting the latest display technologies, or being able to run efficiently on older or low power devices.

                  Releasing a closed source desktop environment on an open source desktop platform is also pointless.
                  I think you misunderstood, the killer apps would not be for COSMIC, they would be for POP!_OS.

                  Releasing a closed source DE for an open source OS is no more pointless than releasing any other closed source software for Linux.

                  We already have closed source, proprietary, native Linux builds for a number of games, Resolve, Lightworks, etc, why should the DE be any different?

                  The point is that System76 is a business that in theory wants to make as much money as possible and by selling generic looking computers, with off the shelf commodity hardware, at higher prices than more establish brands than Dell or HP and then they limit their potential client base by installing an OS that according to Steam surveys has less than 1% usage among what is probably one of their largest potential client base.

                  System76 doesn't offer anything unique to attract a robust, sustainable client base. If they turn around and release COSMIC as open source, which is obvious they are going to do, within a month they will lose any competitive advantage as it shows up in other distros' repositories and we see COSMIC spins of Arch, Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, OpenSuse, et al.

                  Look at the comments in this thread, there are people that they can't wait to try COSMIC not they can't wait to buy a System76 computer.

                  What they will do is what I will do, once POP!_OS with COSMIC is released I will download the iso, burn it to a thumb drive and take it for a spin and if i like it I will install it on a system that I custom built for for a lot less than a System76 PC.

                  Note that none of that puts a dime in System76's pocket.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by sophisticles View Post
                    The point is that System76 is a business that in theory wants to make as much money as possible
                    Then this is a fundamental misunderstanding in how businesses operate. As you may learn from an Econ. or Bus. course: profit is an output, not a purpose. Profit is a means for the purpose, rather than being the purpose itself. Successful businesses have a reason to exist that goes beyond mere profit. Businesses whose purpose are to extract profit are an exception, not the rule. These usually call themselves "money managers" or "investment groups".

                    What they will do is what I will do, once POP!_OS with COSMIC is released I will download the iso, burn it to a thumb drive and take it for a spin and if i like it I will install it on a system that I custom built for for a lot less than a System76 PC.
                    Which is fine. System76's purpose is being successfully fulfilled.
                    Last edited by mmstick; 16 August 2023, 01:39 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by sophisticles View Post

                      I think you misunderstood, the killer apps would not be for COSMIC, they would be for POP!_OS.

                      Releasing a closed source DE for an open source OS is no more pointless than releasing any other closed source software for Linux.

                      We already have closed source, proprietary, native Linux builds for a number of games, Resolve, Lightworks, etc, why should the DE be any different?

                      The point is that System76 is a business that in theory wants to make as much money as possible and by selling generic looking computers, with off the shelf commodity hardware, at higher prices than more establish brands than Dell or HP and then they limit their potential client base by installing an OS that according to Steam surveys has less than 1% usage among what is probably one of their largest potential client base.

                      System76 doesn't offer anything unique to attract a robust, sustainable client base. If they turn around and release COSMIC as open source, which is obvious they are going to do, within a month they will lose any competitive advantage as it shows up in other distros' repositories and we see COSMIC spins of Arch, Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, OpenSuse, et al.

                      Look at the comments in this thread, there are people that they can't wait to try COSMIC not they can't wait to buy a System76 computer.

                      What they will do is what I will do, once POP!_OS with COSMIC is released I will download the iso, burn it to a thumb drive and take it for a spin and if i like it I will install it on a system that I custom built for for a lot less than a System76 PC.

                      Note that none of that puts a dime in System76's pocket.
                      As someone who want's to look into selling S76 machines either their machines or my own hand built ones, this would absolutely make it so I would not bother selling them. I know others feel the same way I do. PopOS already has a competitive edge compared to other distros in the effort and polish going into it. Gnome has been a major turn off for me due to it's poor performance and the absolute absurd amount of effort needed to be dumped into customization. which is necessary for supporting A11y to any proper degree.

                      Cosmic can be potentially what puts S76 machines into my customers hands. Pop OS doesn't need killer apps. it just needs to be easy to offer support for. every other distro has major problems in this regard but pop could be the distro that's different. as it stands, Selling windows PCs is expensive for any reputable compute salesmen. because we also have to support these machines. and oh boy they need a lot of support lately.

                      Most Issues I have with pop are already solvable. I hate their choice for default bootloader. I hate gnome. I don't like how outdated some apps can be, (pains of a more stable OS I suppose). A little too much pre-installed stuff last I checked. and soome other nits. all of these are easily solvable with a couple scripts and flatpak.

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