Mozilla Firefox 116 Now Available - Capable Of Wayland-Only Builds

[oiaohm]

Like all these complaints about Firefox being wayland only should not be the problem.

https://github.com/Link1J/waylandx waylandx that not a typo development on this has not really been invested.
Gamescope, weston, kde, sway and many others can nest inside X11 so allowing Wayland applications to work.

The problem is not that Firefox provides option for wayland only its more of a problem that the solutions automatically use wayland under X11 has not seen developer time.

Yes the parties wanting to keep on using x11 do need to find some way of funding developers so when applications turn up that are wayland only that there is a auto run wayland compositor for X11to provide wayland interfaces under X11 desktop yes basically the mirror of Xwayland that makes everything work without really seeing that much. Gamescope, weston. kde... and many other wayland compositors do support using X11 backend to sit on top of X11 bare metal server. Gamescope is getting the seamless bits.

The reality is be your desktop X11 or Wayland if the compatibility bits are done there would be almost no reason to care if application comes to you as wayland only or x11 only as all this means is compatibility bit has to run.

Firefox having wayland only build being a issue is not a problem that mozilla should be fixing. There issue is missing compatibility bit. It took a little bit of work to have Xwayland with wayland to be able to start and stop on demand there is absolutely no reason why the same could not exist for wayland on top of X11 as well and only does not exist because development time has not been put into making it.

[ssokolow]

Wayland is, by all intents and purposes, X12. Even the developers are the same. What you're imagining would be more like X11.7.

We already have X11R7 (it arrived around the time X.org finally gained support for autoconfiguration) so I think X11.8 would be more correct.

[ssokolow]

"you won't hardly be able to boot up a modern GNU/Linux distro without devoting at least 1-2GB of ram to systemd and its many tentacles"

Very funny. I have VPS with 512MiB of RAM that I run Debian on (and want to use systemd with for its convenient support for sandboxing daemons) and the base system, including the sshd, bash, and `free -m` processes I use to measure it, takes less than 70MiB of RAM.

[smitty3268]

This is just insanity. Linux users shout and discredit themselves from every rooftop, and show how hateful they are. No, not a single Wayland proponent here has done shit for Wayland but, boy, oh boy, you are so proud of trying to destroy something you did not create and which has served people for well over 40 years and continues to do so. This is abomination. While people in Windows can enjoy running applications written 30 years ago, Linux fans scream "we do not need no stinking compatibility".

I'm confused. You know XWayland exists, right? And it's whole purpose is to provide backwards compatibility? And that it was written by Wayland proponents, in order to allow people to move on to Wayland while keeping their old applications running?

I'm not sure how you can understand all that and write the opinion you did above.

I'm also deeply confused how you think allowing a build option for Firefox to choose the backend it uses is going to affect X in any way. There were already runtime ways of doing this, like environment variables. How does moving it into the build process matter?

This is fucking despicable, atrocious, shameful and I'm just out.

LOL, my new drinking game is to grab a shot every time birdie says this or claims he's blocking someone. Hopefully I'm not dead by next week.

[Myownfriend]

avis, Monsterovich It looks like it's time to put up or shut up. Get off Phoronix and start contributing changes to X11 or create the X12 that only you seem to know how to create. Invite probonopd, too.

[Myownfriend]

Repeating that nonsense a hundred times won't make it true. X12 is a promotional gimmick made for the sake of marketing. In fact, Wayland is not even close to Xorg. Not one f*cking inch.

Wayland isn't the successor to Xorg, it's the successor to X11 and yea, it's nothing like it. That's not a bad thing.

[Myownfriend]

Firefox with X11 dependencies does not force you to have X.org installed. 20 likes for an outright false statement. That's the level of discourse we're having here.

How are you going to ignore every other response and only respond to this. Yea, you don't need have Xorg installed just because Firefox supports it but your initial statement was that Firefox having the option to compile without X11 or Wayland support is limiting freedom. That makes no sense.

Again, I said Linux users are obsessed with breaking backward compatibility thus having the least amount of software available and you just went ahead and confirmed that. And good luck attracting people to the OS where backward compatibility is ridiculed and called "evil". That's all you need to know about Linux/Phoronix users.

face-fucking-palm.jpeg

Lets add this to mounting list of dumb shit you've said. Where have you seen Linux users with a hate-boner for backwards compatibility? Where have people called backward's compatibility evil? You live in your own little world.

People just want to move on to Wayland and run any X11 software through XWayland instead of having to change sessions. Where is the backwards compatibility being thrown out there?

It IS annoying that people like you constantly bitch about backwards compatibility being the be-all and end-all OS or software design. It's not. At some point all software drops support for old hardware, protocols, maybe even file formats. You don't program so you don't understand why these things need to be done and why it makes more sense in the long run to strip things out.

[cl333r]

Exactly! Train left the station, some are yelling after that to call back. But Wayland does not have to be way forward, if one of these opinionated geniuses would develop something revolutionary and demonstrate it. All I see is they are wasting their time on the forums though.

Yeah. I think it's impossible because I don't see how one can strike a much better trade-off between a variety of features than Wayland. Maybe in 10-20 years when silicon changes so much that today's display server approach will be very suboptimal.

[Svyatko]

With Firefox 116 this bug was solved: startup crash on old CPUs caused by using AVX instructions for ordinary x86-64 architecture (= x86-64-v1).
Bug was caused by gcc 13 + LTO: in LTO stage gcc 13 uses arbitrary architecture level code path for Skia's inline assembly code.
More info:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1838323

https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1212101

https://bugs.gentoo.org/908412

[-MacNuke-]

You specifically said "being forced to have Xorg installed". You did not say a fucking word about libX11 or any related articles.

I am sorry that you were not smart enough.

People in this topic are obsessed with not having the Xorg server installed.

Personal choice and freedom is the reason I am using Open Source software. Why do you want to take away these choices and the freedom from me?

you are so proud of trying to destroy something you did not create and which has served people for well over 40 years and continues to do so. This is abomination.

First: I do not destroy anything. It is not my fault that nobody wants to maintain that steaming pile of dog shit named "Xorg". Pretty much every developer realized that the whole codebase is broken beyond repair. Second: Rocks served people very well for hundreds of years, yet I am using a hammer nowadays since it works better.

While people in Windows can enjoy running applications written 30 years ago, Linux fans scream "we do not need no stinking compatibility".

That's a good one. I have a ton of software from 30 years ago that does not run on Windows 11 natively.

Right now Xorg works better for the vast majority of people and use cases than Wayland. That's a fact. You know why? Because the vast majority of people continue to use it.

Xorg does not work better for me. Using more than one monitor on Xorg is a fucking nightmare.

So much for "dog shit named Xorg". Of course, it didn't occur to you that Xorg and X11 were written by actual people and you just insulted them for no reasons.

Those people who wrote Xorg are now working on Wayland. By saying Wayland is bad you are insulting the same people.