Mozilla Firefox 116 Now Available - Capable Of Wayland-Only Builds

[avis]

I still do not understand why you are so eager to limiting freedom of choice.

Having a Firefox built only with Wayland support is limiting the freedom of choice. You got it totally backwards and you've been screaming how you like it backwards. Linux fans and discrediting Open Source - a match made in heaven.

Among 90% of people that I know who used Linux in the past left it for Windows/MacOS just because they got tired of all the infighting and hateful Linux fans.

"Xorg is dogshit!"
"Redhat is evil!"
"Microsoft/Oracle/NVIDIA/proprietary/patented stuff must die!"

Every fucking day.

[-MacNuke-]

Having a Firefox built only with Wayland support is limiting freedom of choice.

Then do not use a Firefox build that is only compatible with Wayland. Simple as that. But right. You are not doing anything except screaming and expect other people to act on your interests. That's not how "Open Source" works buddy. "Open Souce" and "Freedom" does not mean that others have to agree with _you_.

[-MacNuke-]

Among 90% of people that I know who used Linux in the past left it for Windows/MacOS just because they got tired of all the infighting and hateful Linux fans.

Sure because if you do not care for freedom of choice, Open Source or freedom in general, Windows and macOS are excellent choices. Everyone gets the same shit stuffed down their throat and gets the same features/apps removed from them. Just today Windows 11 tried to force Edge on me again by opening a link in Edge instead of the system setting "Firefox" and asked me to switch to it.

Its also funny that you say everyone is "hateful" while you being the most aggressive and hateful person in the thread.

[ultimA]

How's limiting freedom become "interesting"? A pure Wayland Firefox build is not any "faster" or "better" than the one which supports X11 as well. Oh, it will save you a hundred of kilobytes of code. At the same time:

$ du -hs /opt/firefox
224M /opt/firefox

That's the official Firefox 116 x86-64 Linux build. Yeah, that's really something ... I mean absolutely nothing to talk about.

The reason it is interesting is not because it saves a few hundred KBs in Firefox, it is interesting because it might prevent all the X-related packages from being pulled in during installation. Of course, you might not care about that. but I hate it when I have a headless system, I install some library, and suddenly I seem to need the the whole X-server installed with most of its packages, even if not running. The situation with Wayland and X is the same. If my goal is to have a graphical desktop based on Wayland, I don't want just one application to pull in all the X-related stuff. Firefox is a popular application especially on Linux, and the ability to build it completely without X is a huge step in allowing this.

[avis]

The reason it is interesting is not because it saves a few hundred KBs in Firefox, it is interesting because it might prevent all the X-related packages from being pulled in during installation. Of course, you might not care about that. but I hate it when I have a headless system, I install some library, and suddenly I seem to need the the whole X-server installed with most of its packages, even if not running. The situation with Wayland and X is the same. If my goal is to have a graphical desktop based on Wayland, I don't want just one application to pull in all the X-related stuff. Firefox is a popular application especially on Linux, and the ability to build it completely without X is a huge step in allowing this.

I get it, you also don't have Xwayland installed and you've wilfully bereft yourself of all the X11 software just because you wanna save ~50MB of disk space.

No Steam or professional Linux software for you either.

Yeah, just to save nothing 50 megabytes. And then you say headless system and graphics software for Wayland. Maybe you could get it right next time and stop lying and making stuff up.

I knew Wayland fans had zero arguments against Xorg and X11 software, this topic has proved that beyond reasonable doubt. All you have is "I hate the old because the new is better". Why better? Because it's new!

What a disgrace.

[Sonadow]

I get it, you also don't have Xwayland installed and you've wilfully bereft yourself of all the X11 software just because you wanna save ~50MB of disk space.

No Steam or professional Linux software for you either.

Yeah, just to save nothing 50 megabytes. And then you say headless system and graphics software for Wayland. Maybe you could get it right next time and stop lying and making stuff up.

I knew Wayland fans had zero arguments against Xorg and X11 software, this topic has proved that beyond reasonable doubt. All you have is "I hate the old because the new is better". Why better? Because it's new!

What a disgrace.

As someone who never had any good experience with X, not wanting X in my system is definitely a big thing.

You can argue that X just works. That is, until it doesn't and the autodetection screws up. What next? Try adding random configs in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d and mucking around with stuff in /etc/X11 praying that something works out of sheer luck and black magic? No point even talking about X11 software when I can't even get to the graphical desktop. I'm not making this up. Recently on a server I installed Ubuntu Server 18.04, used apt to install Gnome and tried to enter a graphical desktop; guess what? Xorg autodetection failed and even using driver "Vesa" or driver "modesetting" could not even get us to an X-based Gnome desktop; GDM just straight up failed to start with the dreaded "no screens found" error from X. With Wayland, the only thing that is needed to start a GUI session is llvmpipe. Literally. No messing around with any Xorg configs.

So yes, IMO X deserves to die a painful death sooner than later.

[-MacNuke-]

just because you wanna save ~50MB of disk space.

Nah... this is not the reason. I just do not want unmaintained crap on my system.

[Sonadow]

Having a Firefox built only with Wayland support is limiting the freedom of choice. You got it totally backwards and you've been screaming how you like it backwards. Linux fans and discrediting Open Source - a match made in heaven.

Among 90% of people that I know who used Linux in the past left it for Windows/MacOS just because they got tired of all the infighting and hateful Linux fans.

"Xorg is dogshit!"
"Redhat is evil!"
"Microsoft/Oracle/NVIDIA/proprietary/patented stuff must die!"

Every fucking day.

Linux is fucked up in many ways that you and I both agree on, but Firefox is not dropping the X code paths. Anybody can pick up the Firefox source and compile it with a simple flag in .mozconfig such that both X and Wayland paths are used.

I choose to build Firefox as wayland-only, obviously I'm not going to share my binary with someone who runs an X-based session.

[SilverBird775]

There will never be a compromise. You see, the supporters of the old cruft are genuinely afraid that some drastic change will broke their system. Rightfully so! They invested so much time tinkering just the right settings, cherry picking applications, to finally have the solutions they can settle with.

Just as an example. After the recent distro enforced change to PipeWire I have stuttering, weirdness, quality drop. Tinker time again dammit! But I see a better code, better API, better tools, better potential. Please don't get me wrong, this API is not great too, compared to M$ API's. But should I defend the previous PulseAudio then? With a tuned up config I settled with and chosen applications it just works for me with nothing left to desire. See, that is a honey trap! No, I would not blame a distro maintainers a bit. Why? Because such a horrible code as PA is the evil on its own. I hate writing something for PA, such a bad API it is! If it is that bad then why should I pretend that all is fine and stick to it forever?

Linux environment is full of messed up and outdated code. If you think otherwise then you are just not truly honest to yourself. You fall in your mind trap where everything you built works for you and afraid that someone might blow your shaky card house.

Meanwhile Wayland is the main technology that extends the life of my dual core Athlon desktop to another decade, keeps it in a zone of relaxed comfort. Old fella was never designed to drive 4K multihead yet it do right now.
15 years old still fit like a champ. Thank you, Linux!

[avis]

Nah... this is not the reason. I just do not want unmaintained crap on my system.

You've changed your testimony three times in this thread and you've never once apologized to Xorg developers who you insulted in the worst manner possible and some of them wrote Wayland for you.

Lastly you're not using ~95% of functions of the applications and libraries you have installed on your system. For some reasons you don't go screaming around "Strip this fucking unmaintained crap from my system!!" And yeah, lots of that code is barely if maintained at all.

As a person you're dead to me. Please do not reply to my messages.