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  • lamka02sk
    replied
    Originally posted by dev_null View Post
    ...it did exactly what C++, but with a different syntax.
    Sounds like you either didn't understand how the language works or you are ignorant. Syntax is only a tip of the iceberg when it comes to programming languages.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ironmask
    replied
    Originally posted by Barnacle View Post

    You're saying it's impossible to write bug free C code? and I suppose bug-free code comes standard in all Rust projects?

    I'd be happy to show you my bug free C code except I'm not going to out my identity just because some Rust fanboy demanded receipts. I'm sure you are 0% qualified to make that evaluation anyway, and wouldn't spend 2 seconds of your time trying.
    I find it so bizarre that this is the stock response to being asked to see source code when responding to outrageous claims.
    You do know source code is text, right? Biblio? Something that can be easily shared as this very post you're reading? You don't need to give me your address, I'm just asking to see some code. Text. A creation as old as fire.

    And no, bug-free C code is totally possible. You just have to have NASA's level of quality (after they decided on using metric units, anyway). Although there is no such thing as bug-free code, Rust does inherently eliminate most common bugs in programs written in other languages. I won't get into why that is though, since you don't know Rust, and it's pointless to have a discussion about a topic when one of two parties knows nothing about the subject.

    Leave a comment:


  • Barnacle
    replied
    Originally posted by Ironmask View Post
    I'd also like to see your repositories of bug-free C code, please.
    You're saying it's impossible to write bug free C code? and I suppose bug-free code comes standard in all Rust projects?

    I'd be happy to show you my bug free C code except I'm not going to out my identity just because some Rust fanboy demanded receipts. I'm sure you are 0% qualified to make that evaluation anyway, and wouldn't spend 2 seconds of your time trying.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ironmask
    replied
    Originally posted by unwind-protect View Post

    Well, you might get C included in the C++ learning, but C++ is a huge language, and every 3 years they pile on. I'm still not caught up to C++20, let alone 23.

    Rust and C combined are IMHO less learning effort than learning modern C++ well.
    Not to mention several issues with what he said: Tacking C on to a language is a very arbitrary requirement, if you don't need it then it's useless. C++'s "C" isn't standard C and has several quirks of it's own. Rust has automatic C binding tools which makes it effortless to use it anyway. Every language that isn't C++ also doesn't embed C, because the entire point of every language that isn't C is to improve on it, not to compliment it. All C code gets abstracted by other languages, not incorporated into it. Look at the dozens and dozens of SQLite wrappers that exist for practically every language ever made. Saying a language isn't good because it doesn't embed C is like saying it isn't good because it doesn't embed Assembly, or even XML (Some people wanted C# to embed XML or JSON into it like how Visual BASIC has embedded XML, which was obviously rejected by the C# team because that's insane).

    And finally, Rust's macro system does let you embed C, or Assembly, or whatever else you want into it. I know ASM macros exist, not sure about C, but again, nobody needs or wants that, just make a separate C project.

    Leave a comment:


  • unwind-protect
    replied
    Originally posted by dev_null View Post
    I tried to learn Rust several times but my motivation evaporated quickly when I saw that it did exactly what C++, but with a different syntax. So my conclusion: might be worth if you start to learn programming, and even there you likely will need to learn C anyway because of amount of libraries written. With C++ you get C for free with Rust it is double effort. In other cases it’s weird why so many people want/like it and it indeed resembles a secta or cult
    Well, you might get C included in the C++ learning, but C++ is a huge language, and every 3 years they pile on. I'm still not caught up to C++20, let alone 23.

    Rust and C combined are IMHO less learning effort than learning modern C++ well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nth_man
    replied
    > Windows communities are actually quite friendly and nice

    Anyone can see Windows 10 users talking about Windows 11 users, or Windows 7 users talking about the others not quite friendly and nice...

    There are big differences between all those Windows, it's like some people do not see them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ironmask
    replied
    Originally posted by ClosedSource View Post
    It's not healthy to be a "fan" of an Operating system, language, or tool. It's even worse when you form communities around fandom over technologies. You end up neglecting the benefits of technology and fixate on the community. This is something Windows does not suffer from. No one likes Windows...not even Microsoft employees.
    Communities should be places where people exchange advice, news, troubleshoot problems, and share existing solutions. They should have concrete benefit through exchange of knowledge. You're not supposed to care for my taste or what I like to do if it has nil effect on you.
    I fully agree, I don't endorse any fandom.

    Also a lot of people like Windows, like legitimately. They're usually pretty quiet about it though, Windows communities are actually quite friendly and nice. You never notice them because they're not really vocal about it. I mean, it's Windows, there's not much to say. It's a bit like the Ubuntu communities.

    You know you can still hate something and act like a fanboy about it, which is called a hater. It's a bizarre passion either way.

    Leave a comment:


  • ClosedSource
    replied
    It's not healthy to be a "fan" of an Operating system, language, or tool. It's even worse when you form communities around fandom over technologies. You end up neglecting the benefits of technology and fixate on the community. This is something Windows does not suffer from. No one likes Windows...not even Microsoft employees.
    Communities should be places where people exchange advice, news, troubleshoot problems, and share existing solutions. They should have concrete benefit through exchange of knowledge. You're not supposed to care for my taste or what I like to do if it has nil effect on you.
    Last edited by ClosedSource; 06 April 2023, 04:49 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ironmask
    replied
    Originally posted by Barnacle View Post

    Exactly this. C++ made many, many mistakes in the language design and standard library, and every time I consider learning Rust (just in case maybe it becomes a marketable job skill someday), I just see gross C++isms and other weirdness. The operating system is still written in C, and POSIX still specifies that it is written in C. All CPUs and their ISAs are still highly optimized for C and it's standard library, and there are not enough transistors in the world to make a CPU+ISA that is optimized for Rust or C++.

    It's not that difficult to learn how to develop in such a simple language as C and write "memory/thread safe" code using the available tooling such as Valgrind. But then again, apparently I am one of those elitist snob geniuses who can write C code adequately.
    I'm not sure how you can admit to not knowing Rust and expect to have any stake in a conversation about it.
    I can't even rebuttal your comment about tooling because you literally do not understand what Rust does by admission of willful ignorance. Like, there is literally no conversation to be had here.

    I'd also like to see your repositories of bug-free C code, please.

    Leave a comment:


  • Barnacle
    replied
    Originally posted by dev_null View Post
    I tried to learn Rust several times but my motivation evaporated quickly when I saw that it did exactly what C++, but with a different syntax. So my conclusion: might be worth if you start to learn programming, and even there you likely will need to learn C anyway because of amount of libraries written. With C++ you get C for free with Rust it is double effort. In other cases it’s weird why so many people want/like it and it indeed resembles a secta or cult
    Exactly this. C++ made many, many mistakes in the language design and standard library, and every time I consider learning Rust (just in case maybe it becomes a marketable job skill someday), I just see gross C++isms and other weirdness. The operating system is still written in C, and POSIX still specifies that it is written in C. All CPUs and their ISAs are still highly optimized for C and it's standard library, and there are not enough transistors in the world to make a CPU+ISA that is optimized for Rust or C++.

    It's not that difficult to learn how to develop in such a simple language as C and write "memory/thread safe" code using the available tooling such as Valgrind. But then again, apparently I am one of those elitist snob geniuses who can write C code adequately.

    Leave a comment:

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