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System76 Adding XWayland Support & Other Improvements To Its COSMIC DE

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  • #21
    Originally posted by user1 View Post
    Sorry if I'm being blunt, but from that screenshot it doesn't seem any different from the ui principles that Gnome already uses (CSD's hamburger menus, etc). So I don't understand what was their problem with Gnome in the first place?
    If Cosmic or that new toolkit they're developing doesn't offer anything new or extraordinary that other desktops/toolkits don't already offer, then I don't understand the point of this whole endeavour and I think it just adds to the Linux desktop fragmentation.
    I'm guessing they didn't want the attitude and needed something they can fix themselves if need be.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by user1 View Post
      Sorry if I'm being blunt, but from that screenshot it doesn't seem any different from the ui principles that Gnome already uses (CSD's hamburger menus, etc). So I don't understand what was their problem with Gnome in the first place?
      If Cosmic or that new toolkit they're developing doesn't offer anything new or extraordinary that other desktops/toolkits don't already offer, then I don't understand the point of this whole endeavour and I think it just adds to the Linux desktop fragmentation.
      GNOME developers whined about distro maintainers theming their desktop and adding by-default extensions (eg. stopthemingmy.app) and incrementally made it harder to do so while telling distros "ship stock GNOME or GTFO", so System76 GTFO'd.

      (Speaking of stopthemingmy.app, if I didn't already feel it was too much work to hammer the Bottles UI into a shape I like, its developers signing that open letter certainly would make me look elsewhere for the functionality I need. I'm glad they offer an easy to use Don't Use This App Please Don't Theme badge though. It's a great hint that the app probably uses libadwaita.)
      Last edited by ssokolow; 31 January 2023, 09:08 PM.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by rmfx View Post
        Why people feel like arguing for/against gnome vs cosmic..?
        Let both side do their stuff and let's see in the long term who was right...
        And I'm someone who would love a unique gnu/linux os so don't try to convince me about how joining force is better than fork.. it's just that these forum wars are useless.
        Personally, what I have against Cosmic isn't Cosmic itself, nor is it against creating yet another DE, it's more about spending resources of a small hardware company on writing a piece of software we already have plenty of alternatives for. System76 is a hardware company and they should focus on the core of their business before spreading into other areas. They still don't offer any laptop with an AMD dGPU, they still don't offer laptops with 1st class build quality, there are other areas in the stack they can help building like HDR, Prime optimizations, screen-to-gpu multiplexer, fractional scaling, etc. I used to be a loyal System76 user before switching to MSI; I just couldn't resist the far better build quality.

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        • #24
          Why are these people wasting so much time and money? Tying a UX experience to hardware in a FOSS business model makes no sense, unless you're microsoft or apple. Just focus on decent hardware which we don't have yet! Each of us wants different UX anyway; I wouldn't use theirs as I use tiling WMs. Their hardware doesn't even beat a modern Thinkpad, so I'm going with a modern Thinkpad for Linux until then. They should just join teams with frame.work and pool their money and fix a few basic things: suspend to ram that is 10x less energy efficient than apple instead of 100x less. Or just matching the next T14 that will have RDNA3 and USB4 in March-ish this year, which is way better overall than any frame.work or system76 will be. Or give some money to Project X so we can understand how far off we are from a corebooted Ryzen!

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          • #25
            Originally posted by sarmad View Post

            Personally, what I have against Cosmic isn't Cosmic itself, nor is it against creating yet another DE, it's more about spending resources of a small hardware company on writing a piece of software we already have plenty of alternatives for. System76 is a hardware company and they should focus on the core of their business before spreading into other areas. They still don't offer any laptop with an AMD dGPU, they still don't offer laptops with 1st class build quality, there are other areas in the stack they can help building like HDR, Prime optimizations, screen-to-gpu multiplexer, fractional scaling, etc. I used to be a loyal System76 user before switching to MSI; I just couldn't resist the far better build quality.
            It is a shame that a huge number of internet comments are way more sane than the entire paid board and staff of a company with regard to how it should operate. This isn't Apple/M$ we're talking about; this is supposed enthusiast-built hardware made for enthusiasts that easily gets beaten by Lenovo for its same purpose... Perhaps because they have some collective cultural mental block? Crazy.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by piotrj3 View Post
              I wouldn't be suprised if long term it would be one of the most stable DEs around. You have commercial support, and you have it written in language pretty much (in practical meaning) preventing all memory issues and a lot of logic ones. Because it is modern it doesn't have to carry a lot of old garbage, and system76 is company aimed at average users not at server space like Red hat.

              Iced toolkit also supports Vulkan rendering what is nice.
              My DE is more stable. Decade old tiling WMs that have never crashed for me and are way lighter than theirs. Why don't they focus on decent hardware since we don't have any yet? Because adults have become inflantalized and would rather get paid to play with their crayons (as another commenter put it) than solve the issues we need solved.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by ssokolow View Post
                (Speaking of stopthemingmy.app, if I didn't already feel it was too much work to hammer the Bottles UI into a shape I like, its developers signing that open letter certainly would make me look elsewhere for the functionality I need. I'm glad they offer an easy to use Don't Use This App Please Don't Theme badge though. It's a great hint that the app probably uses libadwaita.)
                My condolences, it must be really painful to you to be at this site unless by a lucky coincidence its ui toolkit strictly matches your system theme.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by piotrj3 View Post
                  I wouldn't be suprised if long term it would be one of the most stable DEs around. You have commercial support, and you have it written in language pretty much (in practical meaning) preventing all memory issues and a lot of logic ones. Because it is modern it doesn't have to carry a lot of old garbage, and system76 is company aimed at average users not at server space like Red hat.

                  Iced toolkit also supports Vulkan rendering what is nice.
                  That's funny. Because basically all of that is already being fulfilled by GNOME. Commercial support by an arguably much larger company (Red Hat, part of IBM, plus Canonical) and also being supported by many distributions, the language is basically irrelevant if you know what you are doing (with the arguments the Rust fanboys come with the whole Linux kernel would have to be a complete security desaster, but to mention like at least 90 % of all software), and the "one garbage" it needs to carry with it is only for the time being. They are already planning to have it ship with only Wayland and XWayland, or even without XWayland. That future doesn't seem that far fetched and by then it simply would stop shipping that old stuff.

                  And thanks to GSK, which is available with GTK4, you can choose from a variety of rendering backends: OpenGL, some strange other OpenGL implementation, Cairo, llvmpipe and Vulkan.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by make_adobe_on_Linux! View Post

                    My DE is more stable. Decade old tiling WMs that have never crashed for me and are way lighter than theirs. Why don't they focus on decent hardware since we don't have any yet? Because adults have become inflantalized and would rather get paid to play with their crayons (as another commenter put it) than solve the issues we need solved.
                    Or at least get some working quality control system. Even with Debian Testing I never had that many problems as in the half of a year I endured Pop. So next time I got the time, this piece of garbage goes flying.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Leprechaunius View Post
                      I couldn't care less about their own DE. Why won't they fix the major issues? First add SecureBoot support to PopOS, then go play with your crayons...
                      Or even more importantly, violating GPL by shipping ISOs with proprietary nvidia preinstalled, or shipping patent encumbered software without licenses. Stuff like this makes you skeptical of the longevity of the company.

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