Red Hat Planning A Hackfest To Further Advance HDR Support On The Linux Desktop

[eagleoneraptor]

https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/gnome-40.html

Wait wait wait... you are still complaining of GNOME not having maximize and minimize buttons?

All the anti-GNOME people are this stupid?

[ehansin]

The future is a dystopia. I understand GNOME success, in the same vein as nazis and alt-right success too.

Okay, so I left person's name/handle off of this quote, because not going to "dog" the poster, more going to use this statement to express my thoughts on an alternative take. As an analogy, in politics (here in the "good ol' USA" at least) we have people that have been manipulated (in my opinion) to extremes, and I think they all suck. No solutions, just dogma. Stuck on slogans, don't have anything to offer in regards to *effective* solutions. So here I go on the Linux desktop...

I don't care right now about the surface realities. I want to see the underlying core keep evolving. If the framing and electrical and plumbing are solid, in the future one can change around the furniture all they want, redesign their living spaces, etc. to give a different feel. But that core is solid regardless, you know, that stuff that resides behind the walls.

If these pieces that make up this solid core are composable, interchangeable, or whatever, they can evolve and better solutions that come along can be swapped out. And they can be used to create the core for what ever UI/UX desktop someone comes up with. I have been using Gnome some lately because I did a default F37 workstation install. It does feel a lot more polished than last time I used it, but that doesn't mean it is the best. I have also installed Sway (and Hikari and River for that matter) to have a more minimalist option. I could care less about the Gnome vs. KDE thing, I want to see the core, again that stuff behind the walls, keep getting more and more solid. And then, whatever layer gets slapped on top of that, leave that to end-user choice. There is going be also be innovation (more option) for the "outer layer" UI/UX stuff. So that is where I am at.


* Added just to clarify: By core I mean things like audio (or A/V) subsystems, network management (at least the core pieces), printing subsystems, PID 1 (yes, the init system), the graphical layer (what underlies the UI itself, not what the end user sees), and of course even the kernel. And others, but hopefully I am expressing myself well enough here. I want to see a solid core that can then have "end user experiences" build upon. As I mentioned originally, personal computing is not going to go away, and I'd like to see options where one's freedoms of choice, privacy, not being captured by financial incentives, etc. are respected. Apple, Google, and Microsoft are not going to be the ones to deliver.

* I will also add, I am not defending any particular "core" component that may be the de-facto implementation used today, I'm just expressing thoughts on the general concept. I expect core pieces to evolve and change, just as I expect changes and "innovations" (one person's innovation can be another person's bane) to happen at the UI/UX level.

[ssokolow]

Maybe it also depends on the workflow of the users. But Gnome really shines when you have a multimonitor setup and autotiling. At work I'm using 3 Monitors and multiple workspaces. I don't know how KDE would deal with it. For me it feels like I have inifinite space. Only limitation is my memory ...If I have too much workspaces I tend to loose track of the open windows.

I have three monitors. I use KDE. Granted, I also maintain QuickTile (for some value of maintain, given the mess my life has been in the last few years), but it says a lot that I'd rather exploit X11's architecture to monkey-patch extra functionality into the window manager in a WM-agnostic way than use GNOME.

When KDE 4.x made KDE on *buntu untenable for a while, I used LXDE with a smattering of KDE apps like Filelight (Baobab added radial graph mode later to become a crappy clone of it) and K3b... and yes, I did try GNOME 2.x. It was similar enough to KDE 3.5.x that, as a relatively recent Linux immigrant, I was puzzled what the difference was beyond a different selection of themes... as someone who just came from Windows XP running Litestep, I preferred KDE's selection and defaults.

[mdedetrich]

Yea, for once its not a Windows 95 based shell. How horrible.

Yea sorry to say, but making the desktop look like a tablet/phone isn't any better. In fact arguably its much worse, something that ironically even Windows found out with Windows 8.

[timofonic]

Okay, so I left person's name/handle off of this quote, because not going to "dog" the poster, more going to use this statement to express my thoughts on an alternative take. As an analogy, in politics (here in the "good ol' USA" at least) we have people that have been manipulated (in my opinion) to extremes, and I think they all suck. No solutions, just dogma. Stuck on slogans, don't have anything to offer in regards to *effective* solutions. So here I go on the Linux desktop...

I don't care right now about the surface realities. I want to see the underlying core keep evolving. If the framing and electrical and plumbing are solid, in the future one can change around the furniture all they want, redesign their living spaces, etc. to give a different feel. But that core is solid regardless, you know, that stuff that resides behind the walls.

If these pieces that make up this solid core are composable, interchangeable, or whatever, they can evolve and better solutions that come along can be swapped out. And they can be used to create the core for what ever UI/UX desktop someone comes up with. I have been using Gnome some lately because I did a default F37 workstation install. It does feel a lot more polished than last time I used it, but that doesn't mean it is the best. I have also installed Sway (and Hikari and River for that matter) to have a more minimalist option. I could care less about the Gnome vs. KDE thing, I want to see the core, again that stuff behind the walls, keep getting more and more solid. And then, whatever layer gets slapped on top of that, leave that to end-user choice. There is going be also be innovation (more option) for the "outer layer" UI/UX stuff. So that is where I am at.


* Added just to clarify: By core I mean things like audio (or A/V) subsystems, network management (at least the core pieces), printing subsystems, PID 1 (yes, the init system), the graphical layer (what underlies the UI itself, not what the end user sees), and of course even the kernel. And others, but hopefully I am expressing myself well enough here. I want to see a solid core that can then have "end user experiences" build upon. As I mentioned originally, personal computing is not going to go away, and I'd like to see options where one's freedoms of choice, privacy, not being captured by financial incentives, etc. are respected. Apple, Google, and Microsoft are not going to be the ones to deliver.

I'm against the extremes, that's why I'm against IBM/Redhatcracy too. I'm also against a KDE centric ecosystem too.

Infrastructure is biased and too much oriented to Redhat ecosystem, including GNOMisms. Wayland is half-baked and many obvious functionalities are taking a lot to be added.

Implementing many important stuff into Wayland or auxilliary frameworks to make it possible takes considerable amount of code and implementation by DE/WM. Code sharing isn't encouraged, wlroots is a rare project with lack of manpower but essential to maintain diversity in the FOSS ecosystem

I consider all DE/WM must be first class desktop ecosystem citizens in the FOSS world. The contrary is happening and that makes me sad as a long time FOSS user.

There's need of a change, no corporation must have full control of essential parts of the FOSS ecosystem, there should be a lot wider consensus and more things into consideration.

The GNOME vs KDE bipartisan and polarized way must end, for the good of the ecosystem and their users. Folllwing your analogy, it's also bad for politics too, as it can be seen everyday in any country.

Monoculture is bad!

[ehansin]

I'm against the extremes, that's why I'm against IBM/Redhatcracy too. I'm also against a KDE centric ecosystem too.

Infrastructure is biased and too much oriented to Redhat ecosystem, including GNOMisms. Wayland is half-baked and many obvious functionalities are taking a lot to be added.

Implementing many important stuff into Wayland or auxilliary frameworks to make it possible takes considerable amount of code and implementation by DE/WM. Code sharing isn't encouraged, wlroots is a rare project with lack of manpower but essential to maintain diversity in the FOSS ecosystem

I consider all DE/WM must be first class desktop ecosystem citizens in the FOSS world. The contrary is happening and that makes me sad as a long time FOSS user.

There's need of a change, no corporation must have full control of essential parts of the FOSS ecosystem, there should be a lot wider consensus and more things into consideration.

The GNOME vs KDE bipartisan and polarized way must end, for the good of the ecosystem and their users. Folllwing your analogy, it's also bad for politics too, as it can be seen everyday in any country.

Monoculture is bad!

I get what you are saying. I am not an expert, so I don't know all the ins and outs. But I do want to see something work that also gives rise to choice and freedoms of choice, and all of that. Not sure how it will all look like or would look like. But just that basic concept I am all for. As I mentioned a couple of times already, and certainly most here are aware, the Apple/Google/Microsoft offerings in the desktop space (since that is what we are talking about) come with quite a few strings attached.

On that note, I don't use ChromeOS at all, but I do use macOS on a laptop for work and all in all works well for what I need it to do. But I don't like a lot of things about Apple as a company, and from a usability perspective, I have some issues as well. In regards to Windows, I use Window 10 quite a bit for work (and even for personal use, though starting to move away from it more.) I like a lot about the UI and how it does window management, and I use some slick virtual utilities to give me that extra kick. But Microsoft wants to shove all this "live content" down my throat when all I want is to decide for myself what I want. And telemetry. And in regards to UI/UX, Windows 11 looks to maybe be blowing it again. So yeah, I want to see options in free software world shine and prosper, not a question. And I want there to be options not just for people like us who are highly computer proficient, but also just regular users. Maybe the key word here is options. Hmm...

[timofonic]

I get what you are saying. I am not an expert, so I don't know all the ins and outs. But I do want to see something work that also gives rise to choice and freedoms of choice, and all of that. Not sure how it will all look like or would look like. But just that basic concept I am all for. As I mentioned a couple of times already, and certainly most here are aware, the Apple/Google/Microsoft offerings in the desktop space (since that is what we are talking about) come with quite a few strings attached.

On that note, I don't use ChromeOS at all, but I do use macOS on a laptop for work and all in all works well for what I need it to do. But I don't like a lot of things about Apple as a company, and from a usability perspective, I have some issues as well. In regards to Windows, I use Window 10 quite a bit for work (and even for personal use, though starting to move away from it more.) I like a lot about the UI and how it does window management, and I use some slick virtual utilities to give me that extra kick. But Microsoft wants to shove all this "live content" down my throat when all I want is to decide for myself what I want. And telemetry. And in regards to UI/UX, Windows 11 looks to maybe be blowing it again. So yeah, I want to see options in free software world shine and prosper, not a question. And I want there to be options not just for people like us who are highly computer proficient, but also just regular users. Maybe the key word here is options. Hmm...

Yes, I agree.

You don't need to be an expert to give your opinions and analysis from an user perspective, that's my humble opinion.

I consider current "Redhatcracy" situation is extremely negative for choice and proper options. I'll always opine that and will never allow to be forced to shut up about that.

The current situation is negative for GNOME users too.

[JPFSanders]

Why the fuck not?

Why can't I use the correct expletives? Because the site filter's eyes will bleed and I do not want to get banned.

[JPFSanders]

The future is GNOME.

Not, because GNOME will fuck it up.

[evil_core]

Without all this **** colorspaces used directly, there wouldn't be such problems.

The future is indexed mode! 256FTW!