Red Hat Planning A Hackfest To Further Advance HDR Support On The Linux Desktop

[skeevy420]

Yea, for once its not a Windows 95 based shell. How horrible.

If it was so great, everyone would be using Mate. Spoiler, it was not. Not in 2010 and even less today.

Well, in my case, it was because it took too long for Mate to come out and I just don't like the look of GTK3. By the time Mate was released I had moved on to Xfce, was very happy, and found it to be better than GNOME 2. Eventually Xfce moved onto GTK3 so I moved on to KDE Plasma...which was hard to do because when I first came to Linux in the early 00s I avoided KDE and Qt like the plague.

12 years later and I still don't like the look of GTK 3/4 or the GNOME HID. Simply put, it's all the extra padding that makes everything feel like a touch-oriented Android app.

That "by the time Mate was released statement" seems to describe a lot of us that moved from GNOME 2 back in the day. There was no point in Mate or any of the other GNOME 2 clones because we didn't like GTK 3 in and of itself, we found something we liked better, or we didn't like the plugin situation.

The plugin situation is where we lose random plugins every 6 months sucks when GNOME updates, then you wait two or three months, most of the plugins get updated, you get your desktop set back up as close as you could before the update, and a month or three later you take another GNOME update, lose all your plugins, and the process repeats itself. IMHO, GNOME needs a yearly LTS release...or more features so it doesn't have to rely on plugins that break twice a year. If you use plugins with GNOME, you only have a fully featured working desktop for 2/3 a year. That has always been my experience and I don't expect that to change anytime soon.

I know, I know, just run Ubuntu or something else that keeps packages old and outdated...or I could run a desktop that doesn't intentionally break "userspace" with every update. GNOME could learn a thing or two from the Kernel developers.

[Monsterovich]

If it was so great, everyone would be using Mate. Spoiler, it was not. Not in 2010 and even less today.

As of 2022, GNOME has a very low recommendation rate. Xfce and KDE at the top. https://i.imgur.com/k74964J.png

Yea, for once its not a Windows 95 based shell. How horrible.

https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/gnome-40.html

https://medium.com/@fulalas/gnome-li...r-feb27b13a5c2
https://medium.com/@fulalas/gnome-42...es-7d96c3287f7

[CochainComplex]

Because GNOME is an anti-desktop. Besides, it doesn't only affect DE itself, but also GTK (GTK 4 is sh*t, literally) and even Wayland, which is GNOME-oriented.

While I don't really care about Wayland, I do care about GTK, because there are a lot of GTK3 applications. Some applications are still left on GTK2. Probably forever.
Take Qt, for example, with its almost perfect portability between major versions, porting all applications can take years. And in the case of GTK, where each version of the framework is completely incompatible with the previous one, no one will want to rewrite the application. Just as writing in GTK is risky with its constant compatibility breakages, theme compatibility changes, and so on.

At the time of GTK2, I had hopes that GTK would compete with Qt and improve its cross-platform support (and fix the goddamn file picker on Windows). As it turned out, GTK is being developed by complete morons who have absolutely no understanding of GUI programming patterns. Like Wayland, which also turned out to be an architectural failure.

Apparently, of all the adequate developers, it seems only the developers of Pipewire are left. :P

P.S.
GNOME2 was almost flawless, and then GNOME3.... What the hell happened?

We have Gnome 4 already. I do understand the issues back then with the first releases of of Gnome 3. Since then there has been a lot of changes.

Maybe it also depends on the workflow of the users. But Gnome really shines when you have a multimonitor setup and autotiling. At work I'm using 3 Monitors and multiple workspaces. I don't know how KDE would deal with it. For me it feels like I have inifinite space. Only limitation is my memory ...If I have too much workspaces I tend to loose track of the open windows.

[JPFSanders]

I gotta say, this reminds me systemd bashing back in the days, and now pretty much everyone is using it.

The difference and why everybody uses systemd is that systemd works well for the most part. I know this comes as a surprise but the most important aspect of software is whether it works well or not for the intended purpose. Systemd might not be ideal, it might not even be the best solution, but it works sufficiently well and I find it reliable.

[JPFSanders]

Because GNOME is an anti-desktop. Besides, it doesn't only affect DE itself, but also GTK (GTK 4 is sh*t, literally) and even Wayland, which is GNOME-oriented.

Imagine being Gnome 2.x, imagine having momentum to become the almost de-facto desktop standard across the most popular Linux distributions, you decide to embark on a quixotic quest to conquer touch screens throwing away most of what people liked about your DE. Throwing away years of work, mind share, market share, and community will. Along comes a company (Valve) wanting to build a touch friendly device with mass appealing (Steam Deck) and what does Valve do, they evaluate you for like 5 mins, decide your DE is garbage, decide they can't work with you (because you refuse to listen to anybody) and choose your arch-rival KDE which doesn't even focus on touch screens that much for their mass-appealing critically acclaimed product. The shame, the miserable failure. (Sadly I can use proper expletives here so those will have to do)

That is the Gnome experience.

[cooperate]

Seriously, I despise RedHat IBM mafia. It's okay they manage some good stuff. But they do too many toxic stuff. I consider GNOME a cancer.

I hope the non-GNOME/RH/IBM Linux world join forces to make Linux move forward.

If consider GNOME cancer, then it’s not just red Hat my dude. It’d be GNOME/Red Hat/Canonical/SUSE/Endless and more enterprise linux utilizing GNOME because it doesn’t have huge dependencies or two release models (KDE frameworks and plasma). If KDE wasn’t so bloated and unorganized, they’d get a lot more attention in the enterprise linux space.

[JPFSanders]

I get the feeling that the Linux desktop would be more advanced if Red Had would not be so obsessed with Gnome only and not caring at all about other desktop environments.
Interesting how everyone is invited at this event, except for the KDE developers.

Correct, Gnome is literally dead weight at this point, had to use it for a week and it was like walking on a kitchen bare-feet and stepping on glass.

Gnome along with Nvidia = The two entities who have helped the most to halt Linux adoption for years.

[Alexmitter]

You don't know what you are talking about!

I've been using Wayland on Plasma for two years already with very little to no problems.
Just because Plasma has a lot of Wayland bug fixes every month, it doesn't meant that it's as buggy as you think.
It means that KDE developers have a lot lot o bug reports that people who love Plasma have wrote and need to be fixed.
More use case, more bug reports.

Pff. You are just a fanboy who is blind to how terrible Plasma is.

Thanks to Valves terrible decision on what desktop they ship, I can now truly first hand experience just how terrible of a shitshow this desktop is.
And their joke of a Wayland implementation is quite unusable, to this day. Its about where Gnome's was in 2016. Constant crashes, windows without size, bugs everywhere, copy and paste not working between clients...

I do not think there are people who love Plasma, there are only people who have a unhealthy obsessive relationship with it.

[Alexmitter]

Seriously, I despise RedHat IBM mafia. It's okay they manage some good stuff. But they do too many toxic stuff. I consider GNOME a cancer.

I hope the non-GNOME/RH/IBM Linux world join forces to make Linux move forward.

You will have a hard time using the linux platform in general.

It was IBM that was the first large company sending in patches to Linux, opening the floodgates. And they got sued for it and defended Linux in fighting.
Redhat has spend so much money for professional development work on this platform in the last 30 years, they sponsored nearly every of the ecosystem innovations in this time.
And Gnome drove every innovation on the desktop space, both on a technical level and UI/UX level. There is a world beyond the Windows 95 UI scheme.

There is simply not much beyond the "evil non-GNOME/RH/IBM Linux mafia" world, all the talented people flock there so it is only natural that they drive innovation.

[Danny3]

KDE Plasma only requires around 100-200 more minor releases with basic Wayland fixes before it can be considered usable as a daily driver.

You don't know what you are talking about!

I've been using Wayland on Plasma for two years already with very little to no problems.
Just because Plasma has a lot of Wayland bug fixes every month, it doesn't meant that it's as buggy as you think.
It means that KDE developers have a lot lot o bug reports that people who love Plasma have wrote and need to be fixed.
More use case, more bug reports.

And now having even devices shipping KDE software by default:

https://kde.org/hardware/

More and more bugs will be found and more will be fixed.