Red Hat Planning A Hackfest To Further Advance HDR Support On The Linux Desktop

[CochainComplex]

Because GNOME is an anti-desktop. Besides, it doesn't only affect DE itself, but also GTK (GTK 4 is sh*t, literally) and even Wayland, which is GNOME-oriented.

While I don't really care about Wayland, I do care about GTK, because there are a lot of GTK3 applications. Some applications are still left on GTK2. Probably forever.
Take Qt, for example, with its almost perfect portability between major versions, porting all applications can take years. And in the case of GTK, where each version of the framework is completely incompatible with the previous one, no one will want to rewrite the application. Just as writing in GTK is risky with its constant compatibility breakages, theme compatibility changes, and so on.

At the time of GTK2, I had hopes that GTK would compete with Qt and improve its cross-platform support (and fix the goddamn file picker on Windows). As it turned out, GTK is being developed by complete morons who have absolutely no understanding of GUI programming patterns. Like Wayland, which also turned out to be an architectural failure.

Apparently, of all the adequate developers, it seems only the developers of Pipewire are left. :P

P.S.
GNOME2 was almost flawless, and then GNOME3.... What the hell happened?

We have Gnome 4 already. I do understand the issues back then with the first releases of of Gnome 3. Since then there has been a lot of changes.

Maybe it also depends on the workflow of the users. But Gnome really shines when you have a multimonitor setup and autotiling. At work I'm using 3 Monitors and multiple workspaces. I don't know how KDE would deal with it. For me it feels like I have inifinite space. Only limitation is my memory ...If I have too much workspaces I tend to loose track of the open windows.

[Monsterovich]

If it was so great, everyone would be using Mate. Spoiler, it was not. Not in 2010 and even less today.

As of 2022, GNOME has a very low recommendation rate. Xfce and KDE at the top. https://i.imgur.com/k74964J.png

Yea, for once its not a Windows 95 based shell. How horrible.

https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/gnome-40.html

https://medium.com/@fulalas/gnome-li...r-feb27b13a5c2
https://medium.com/@fulalas/gnome-42...es-7d96c3287f7

[skeevy420]

Yea, for once its not a Windows 95 based shell. How horrible.

If it was so great, everyone would be using Mate. Spoiler, it was not. Not in 2010 and even less today.

Well, in my case, it was because it took too long for Mate to come out and I just don't like the look of GTK3. By the time Mate was released I had moved on to Xfce, was very happy, and found it to be better than GNOME 2. Eventually Xfce moved onto GTK3 so I moved on to KDE Plasma...which was hard to do because when I first came to Linux in the early 00s I avoided KDE and Qt like the plague.

12 years later and I still don't like the look of GTK 3/4 or the GNOME HID. Simply put, it's all the extra padding that makes everything feel like a touch-oriented Android app.

That "by the time Mate was released statement" seems to describe a lot of us that moved from GNOME 2 back in the day. There was no point in Mate or any of the other GNOME 2 clones because we didn't like GTK 3 in and of itself, we found something we liked better, or we didn't like the plugin situation.

The plugin situation is where we lose random plugins every 6 months sucks when GNOME updates, then you wait two or three months, most of the plugins get updated, you get your desktop set back up as close as you could before the update, and a month or three later you take another GNOME update, lose all your plugins, and the process repeats itself. IMHO, GNOME needs a yearly LTS release...or more features so it doesn't have to rely on plugins that break twice a year. If you use plugins with GNOME, you only have a fully featured working desktop for 2/3 a year. That has always been my experience and I don't expect that to change anytime soon.

I know, I know, just run Ubuntu or something else that keeps packages old and outdated...or I could run a desktop that doesn't intentionally break "userspace" with every update. GNOME could learn a thing or two from the Kernel developers.

[Monsterovich]

The difference and why everybody uses systemd is that systemd works well for the most part. I know this comes as a surprise but the most important aspect of software is whether it works well or not for the intended purpose. Systemd might not be ideal, it might not even be the best solution, but it works sufficiently well and I find it reliable.

There are whole anti-systemd sites.

https://nosystemd.org/

https://without-systemd.org/

I don't understand why the systemd is so bad, either. Maybe the haters can explain?

[skeevy420]

Imagine being Gnome 2.x, imagine having momentum to become the almost de-facto desktop standard across the most popular Linux distributions, you decide to embark on a quixotic quest to conquer touch screens throwing away most of what people liked about your DE. Throwing away years of work, mind share, market share, and community will. Along comes a company (Valve) wanting to build a touch friendly device with mass appealing (Steam Deck) and what does Valve do, they evaluate you for like 5 mins, decide your DE is garbage, decide they can't work with you (because you refuse to listen to anybody) and choose your arch-rival KDE which doesn't even focus on touch screens that much for their mass-appealing critically acclaimed product. The shame, the miserable failure. (Sadly I can use proper expletives here so those will have to do)

That is the Gnome experience.

Why the fuck not?

[Volta]

That's some "Year of the Linux Desktop" vibes

Or "Linux gaming console". Dreams become true.

[timofonic]

The future is GNOME, and I really doubt that's arguable. When I think of GNOME, I think of Red Hat and Canonical, two of the top Linux distribution providers, who also both ship GNOME first-class. KDE has no such backing, with maybe the slimmest exception being from openSUSE. Every other distro providing KDE is niche or a spin of a mainstream distro using GNOME.

When I was distro-hopping, GNOME was the only DE that was consistent across a 4K display and 2-in-1 tablet I had at the time. KDE was bad with HiDPI, and Plasma 5 didn't even have an on-screen keyboard. Nobody is using Wayland with KDE in a confident manner, and yet it's usable-enough for all the mainstream GNOME distros to be shipping it enabled out-the-box.

Instead of complaining about the situation, maybe go figure out why nobody ships it, and improve KDE to make it as-flexible and feature-complete as GNOME. And if anyone thinks any other DE or WM should be presented instead of KDE, lol.

The future is a dystopia. I understand GNOME success, in the same vein as nazis and alt-right success too.

GNOME isn't flexible at all, on the contrary. Extensions are faulty and limited. KDE provides too many interesting features GNOME doesn't. Other DE/WM has some nice stuff others doesn't too, even very niche ones.

Nothing is perfect. GNOME success isn't about features but strong lobby interests.

GNOME has some nice features, but the disadvantages surpasses them.

This is a forum, people complain here. I consider KDE needs a lot more resources.

Other WM/DE need a lot more resources too. Those projects should do more code sharing by initiatives such as wlroots instead reinventing the wheel all the time. I consider KDE not using wlroots to be a very stupid decision, for example.

[vancha]

This is great, hopefully my linux based gaming pc will soon be able to make use of the same features it would have if it was running windows. I don't have an hdr compatible monitor yet, but now at least i have a reason to get one ^^

[mdedetrich]

The plugin situation is where we lose random plugins every 6 months sucks when GNOME updates, then you wait two or three months, most of the plugins get updated, you get your desktop set back up as close as you could before the update, and a month or three later you take another GNOME update, lose all your plugins, and the process repeats itself. IMHO, GNOME needs a yearly LTS release...or more features so it doesn't have to rely on plugins that break twice a year. If you use plugins with GNOME, you only have a fully featured working desktop for 2/3 a year. That has always been my experience and I don't expect that to change anytime soon.

Yeah this kind of crap is not acceptable in 2023 and I have no idea why no one from Redhat and/or GNOME has taken this problem seriously. Such a desktop will never be successful if plugins constantly break when a new version of GNOME is released.

[Weasel]

Yea, for once its not a Windows 95 based shell. How horrible.

He did say anti-desktop. And since desktop means Windows 95 based shell, it's totally true.

Using mobile bullshit designs for the desktop is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Eat their shit some more.