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  • #31
    Originally posted by foxhound View Post

    This is really interesting what you wrote. Especially for me about text console tools. I do not use htop but relay on traditional top when it is always available as standard one. But free is as well. Could you elaborate more about it then or provide links to reliable articles to depict the problem you mentioned in this area?
    Sure!

    There is a nice discussion in this Xfce pull request: https://gitlab.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-t...ge_requests/10

    TL;DR: Xfce task manager (also btop++ and GNOME system monitor, to name a few) uses the kernel information to calculate RAM usage. This command, to be more specific:
    Code:
    cat /proc/meminfo | grep "Mem\|Buffers\|Cached"
    ​
    The output will be something like this:
    Code:
    MemTotal:       16293676 kB
    MemFree:        12455464 kB
    MemAvailable:   12999016 kB
    Buffers:          222780 kB
    Cached:          1069648 kB
    SwapCached:            0 kB
    ​
    In this case, the real memory in use would be MemTotal - MemAvailable

    Applications like free, for instance, calculate the used memory using the formula: used = total – free – buffers – cache. How do I know this is wrong? Well, you can check yourself: disable your swap file and start a VM machine set to use the amount of RAM that Xfce task manager or GNOME system monitor informs as free (i.e. total - used) -- it will work. Now try the same thing but with the information provided by free -- your system will freeze.
    Last edited by fulalas; 05 December 2022, 01:37 AM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by foxhound View Post
      Anyway the machine works fine with GNOME (currently 40.9, then outdated without many recent performance fixes). The only bottleneck are Javascript overloaded webpages, such as olx, that causes CPU to overload and choke the system. The web browser is current mainline Firefox 107. DE works fluently I can't say anything wrong about GNOME here.
      Well, I can say there is something wrong with GNOME. Actually, heaps of things :P

      “GNOME’s […] excuse for not doing something is not it’s too complicated to do, but it would confuse users. The whole we know best thing is…


      It seems the tech industry has been trying to make us believe that we need constant novelty otherwise we will be left behind. Although we…

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      • #33
        Originally posted by xfcemint View Post
        Anyway, the point is that Xfwm4 is currently the most advanced technology available for Linux, mostly because it performs all the compositing on the CPU side. All other compositors are far behind it.
        LOL. Enlightenment has had a software ( and hardware ) renderer for wayland for years. Not that this makes it the "most advanced technology available for Linux".

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Monsterovich View Post
          You originally claimed:

          Originally posted by Monsterovich View Post
          while GTK throws features out with every major release
          ... but then gave an example of Gnome? Gnome is not gtk.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by dkasak View Post

            You originally claimed:

            ... but then gave an example of Gnome? Gnome is not gtk.
            I really wish it were like this. But unfortunately the developers' policy is that if something is not needed in GNOME, then it is not needed in GTK either. As I said before, the developers don't care about anything but GNOME. Do our way or go away.

            GTK = Gnome ToolKit​
            Last edited by Monsterovich; 06 December 2022, 06:31 AM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by fulalas View Post

              Well, I can say there is something wrong with GNOME. Actually, heaps of things :P

              “GNOME’s […] excuse for not doing something is not it’s too complicated to do, but it would confuse users. The whole we know best thing is…


              https://medium.com/@fulalas/gnome-42...es-7d96c3287f7
              Good reading. This is just GNOME itself. We need an article about GTK and how it breaks other DEs. This would be interesting. To get all the flaws in one place.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Monsterovich View Post

                I really wish it were like this. But unfortunately the developers' policy is that if something is not needed in GNOME, then it is not needed in GTK either. As I said before, the developers don't care about anything but GNOME. Do our way or go away.

                GTK = Gnome ToolKit​
                Disgusting but true.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Monsterovich View Post



                  Xfce is about as memory-consuming as GNOME and KDE. Xfce is no longer lightweight.
                  You said that Qt applications takes less RAM than GTK. Then how MATE that uses GTK3 takes less RAM than LXQT that uses Qt?

                  Originally posted by Monsterovich View Post
                  Remember? https://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/3685

                  And here's a quote from a 2016 article.
                  That was mostly about themes and yes, GTK3 used to break themes but that's no longer a thing.

                  Originally posted by Monsterovich View Post

                  GTK 4 will do the same. The developers don't even hide it.
                  No, GTK 4 is going to be stable and that was stated by developers.

                  Originally posted by Monsterovich View Post

                  Each 6 months, the new release (Gtk 4.2, Gtk 4.4, Gtk 4.6) will break API and ABI vs. the release that came before it.
                  Bullshit. GTK4 is not breaking API during every release. GTK 4 API is stable from beginning and it will stay that way until GTK 5.

                  Originally posted by Monsterovich View Post

                  GTK devs care only about GNOME.
                  Again false claim without any evidence.

                  Originally posted by Monsterovich View Post

                  Bullshit. You can't disable CSD in the GTK 3. There is no such feature. There is, however, an LD_PRELOAD crutch, but applications look very bad, and it does not work at all for python applications because they do dlopen directly into GTK library and ignore this injection.
                  GTK supports KDE server side decorations protocol.
                  ​​
                  Originally posted by Monsterovich View Post

                  It doesn't matter. If it exists. So there will be applications with unchangeable themes.

                  ​​​
                  libadwaita applications are respecting GTK_THEME environmental variable and that's still a thing. Yet another false claim from your side.

                  Originally posted by Monsterovich View Post
                  And then libadwaita will add widgets that GTK doesn't have, and then what? In short, GTK is no longer an independent framework.
                  Then nothing because that situation won't happen. libadwaita is only adding widgets that GNOME applications uses. That is main point of this library. GTK doesn't require it and you can write application in pure GTK 4 just like you could with GTK 3 and GTK 2, all basic cross platform widgets are still there. libadwaita was created to prevent the very thing you think is happening - adding GNOME centric stuff to GTK That's it. Calm your hate for GTK and accept this very simple truth.

                  By the way: KDE also has something similar to libadwaita - KDE Frameworks. They are used with Qt by KDE desktop and applications. So i guess now Qt is no longer independent framework?
                  Last edited by dragon321; 06 December 2022, 07:44 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by dragon321 View Post
                    You said that Qt applications takes less RAM than GTK. Then how MATE that uses GTK3 takes less RAM than LXQT that uses Qt?
                    Sorry, but this is just not true. Although the difference is not huge, LXQt is definitely lighter than MATE and I can easily prove it. Here's just one recent test I conducted:

                    1_00ObjuW69lcXeIwGLgIbcA.webp

                    Versions tested:
                    Cinnamon 5.4.2
                    GNOME 41.5
                    KDE 5.23.5
                    LXDE 0.10.1
                    LXQt 1.1.0
                    MATE 1.26
                    Openbox 3.6.1
                    Xfce 4.16​
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by fulalas; 15 December 2022, 05:33 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by fulalas View Post

                      Sorry, but this is just not true. Although the difference is not huge, LXQt is definitely lighter than MATE and I can easily prove it. Here's just one recent test I conducted:

                      1_00ObjuW69lcXeIwGLgIbcA.webp

                      Versions tested:
                      Cinnamon 5.4.2
                      GNOME 41.5
                      KDE 5.23.5
                      LXDE 0.10.1
                      LXQt 1.1.0
                      MATE 1.26
                      Openbox 3.6.1
                      Xfce 4.16​
                      Well, GNOME uses less RAM than KDE in your tests as well so that proves nothing about GTK vs Qt memory usage.

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