KDE Plasma 5.25 Preparing More Bug Fixes, Continued Wayland Fixes

[niner]

Well, the Linux kernel is 25-30 million lines of code, which is several times more than both KDE and Xfce combined.

Do you always argue based on invented numbers? According to https://www.openhub.net/p/kde/analys...guages_summary KDE consists of some 26 million lines of which 19 million are code.

Also, remember that if we're talking about the Linux kernel, different people run it on different hardware and architectures, hence the bug reports may be specific to certain mainline drivers or architectures. You can say "oh, but the same can be said about KDE - different people may not be using all of it's features or customization possibilities".

Correct. Thank you for making my argument for me.

You know, several days ago I made some comments here on Phoronix about why I ditched KDE after many years of using it. When you have issues like Plasma desktop crashing simply because of switching your monitor off and then on, or Plasma shell crashes when you open the panel customization menu and just moving the cursor in a certain way, I get the impression that the whole KDE codebase needs some serious code refactoring. And that's not all, many other KDE desktop utilities have also crashed on me at some point.

From reading comments here I get the impression that Tumbleweed users are on average much more satisfied with KDE and especially its stability.

[user1]

Do you always argue based on invented numbers? According to https://www.openhub.net/p/kde/analys...guages_summary KDE consists of some 26 million lines of which 19 million are code.

Correct. Thank you for making my argument for me.

From reading comments here I get the impression that Tumbleweed users are on average much more satisfied with KDE and especially its stability.

Ok, it does seem higher than I've last heard, so I take my words back. However, since this is the whole KDE project, those 19 million lines probably also include software like Krita, which isn't preinstalled on distros. I think it's probably less if you only count Plasma desktop and its utilities.
But what's ironic is that the last time I tried KDE and then decided that I'm done with it was actually on Tumbleweed in mid February this year. It had Plasma 5.24.0. Shortly after a clean install it started to have the most bizarre bugs I've ever experienced on KDE like the crash I mentioned when turning the monitor off and on, or showing a tiny X cursor over the titlebar. I have to say I was really surprised myself because I've used Tumbleweed a few times before and always had great experience with it. However, the most time I spent on Plasma was actually with Kubuntu and I would say I had the most stable Plasma experience with it (but not really crash free) probably because it almost always ships with the latest point release of a certain major version (like 5.22.5).
Idk, maybe Plasma is just more buggy if you start using a new major version early like 5.24.0, without waiting for point releases. On the other hand, 5.24 is an LTS version which is supposed to be more stable, so even if I tried it right after release, it's surprising that it had the issues I experienced.

[Firnefex]

I don't know the exact reason, but Tumbleweed users should always update via "zypper dup" and not with Packagekit (Discover/Softwareupdater in status bar), which is a bit of a downside for new users which only want to use GUI. Zypper is faster though and can be set to automatically update on a daily base of course...

Tumbleweed is my daily driver atm (last time was a year ago), and the only bug I had inside of Plasma was a short transparency/flicker glitch with some windows after the huge update of >2.500 packages (GCC12 compiler upgrade).
Quite unlike back then, where the system was sometimes rather unstable when doing non-standard things. KDE has vastly improved and keeps getting better, they are also not too proud to take up other good ideas and implement them themselves or adapt them for Plasma.

[Steffo]

On the other hand, 5.24 is an LTS version which is supposed to be more stable.

LTS is not stable by definition. It only means "Long Term Support". And in the long run you get a more stable version, but not necessarily after a fresh major release.

[TemplarGR]

LTS is not stable by definition. It only means "Long Term Support". And in the long run you get a more stable version, but not necessarily after a fresh major release.

Basically you are not even guaranteed a more stable version in the long run. LTS means "you keep getting bugfixes and security fixes without needing to upgrade your installation in a disruptive way", useful for LTS distros and other installations that are meant to not be upgraded for a longer time period (servers, for example).

[bug77]

From reading comments here I get the impression that Tumbleweed users are on average much more satisfied with KDE and especially its stability.

Not only Tumbleweed, but also Arch or Neon. Other distros have the bad habit of pairing even the latest KDE version with older Qt. Which is a poor choice, since a lot of the bugs people see in KDE are actually Qt bugs.

That said, the mere fact that KDE devs saw fit to implement a "15 minutes bugs" initiative and that, several months later that initiative is not even close to done, is pretty telling on its own.

[bug77]

LTS is not stable by definition. It only means "Long Term Support". And in the long run you get a more stable version, but not necessarily after a fresh major release.

Not by definition, but the custom is not to include freshly released packages in a LTS release, so it is more stable at the end of the day.

[openminded]

was actually on Tumbleweed in mid February this year. It had Plasma 5.24.0. Shortly after a clean install it started to have the most bizarre bugs I've ever experienced on KDE like the crash I mentioned when turning the monitor off and on

...

> 5.24.0
> 0

...

Just a piece of advice:
If you're using any kind of rolling distro and you don't want to experience weird bugs caused by some new major DE version, postpone your updates until the second bugfix release for that major version. Or stop using rolling distros. Or choose your destiny as a bugreporter - whatever suits you best.
In other words, awareness is everything.

[thalaric]

I don't know the exact reason, but Tumbleweed users should always update via "zypper dup" and not with Packagekit (Discover/Softwareupdater in status bar), which is a bit of a downside for new users which only want to use GUI. Zypper is faster though and can be set to automatically update on a daily base of course...

This isn't actually true anymore, package kit on tumbleweed knows how to do the right thing for the last few years. See: https://www.reddit.com/r/openSUSE/co...mment/eiqkdod/

Tumbleweed is my daily driver atm (last time was a year ago), and the only bug I had inside of Plasma was a ...

Same here, in fact I'm wearing my tumbleweed t-shirt right now. I won't claim that KDE is 100% bug free, I get the odd behavior or crash once in a while, but gnome3+ is so shitty for getting actual work done it wouldn't be worth using even if were rock solid, which it isn't.

[user1]

That said, the mere fact that KDE devs saw fit to implement a "15 minutes bugs" initiative and that, several months later that initiative is not even close to done, is pretty telling on its own.

That's another reason I mentioned version 5.24.0, even if it's a freshly released major version. It was released after the "15 minutes bugs" initiative has already kicked in, so I expected to have a reasonably stable experience. But I got the opposite experience, even worse than before.