Why Desktop Linux Sucks and What We can Do About It

[deanjo]

You said before So what's the point in your response? I can give you examples where Macos don't work after upgrade. I said compare preinstaled Linux distros to Macoses. Did you forget about Macos version of Blue Screen of Death? Why wifi should stop working on Macs if it's suited for them?

OK give me those examples. Show me through out the history of OS X where you were greeted with a drop to darwin because of a broken video on a release or where wifi stopped working on the hardware that it officially supports. I can show you tonnes of examples for ralink cards for example where wifi stopped working on a kernel update despite it being part of the kernel. Hell even cards that were supported in OS 9 still continue to function and that was a major rewrite of an OS. Meanwhile even ralink cards continue to work from 10.3 (which is when they started supporting Macs) on across ppc and x86.

[Craig73]

If you actually listen to his comments on OBS it's not so much the service that he has a beef with but the lack of a unified packaging solution for linux which again is not really a OBS issue. Another misdirected rant. He basically wants OBS to have the capability of a reliable "checkinstall" type of scenario where you drop the source in and it creates a valid package.

Well, I would interpret it more as -- it's a pain to right software for Linux because there are too many combination of everything.

Packaging being one angle

[deanjo]

Well, I would interpret it more as -- it's a pain to right software for Linux because there are too many combination of everything.

Packaging being one angle

Ya, and he is correct on that. OBS does make it more convenient to get the various packages out there for the major distro's but it really doesn't cut down on the amount of work it takes to create those packages when it comes to specing out the packages. The compiling of the packages once those specs are created is the easy part.

[kraftman]

OK give me those examples. Show me through out the history of OS X where you were greeted with a drop to darwin because of a broken video on a release or where wifi stopped working on the hardware that it officially supports. I can show you tonnes of examples for ralink cards for example where wifi stopped working on a kernel update despite it being part of the kernel.

The best examples would be about BSOD in Leopard, but when users reported this apple started to delete some of their reports. It seems you don't understand Linux is not Ubuntu and why are you still talking about Linux version of hackintoshes?

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1411 (some of ideas here makes me wonder if Macos is good for newbies and if it just works?)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/27/leopard_install_problems/

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1195031&tstart=0

Those problems which you mentioned are nothing :> There's actually fine working Linux distro installed on laptops and if they decide to upgrade it they'll do it when some problems will be fixed (or they can install it on compatible hardware like apple does).

1. These hardware items may produce a kernel panic message during startup. If one of them is installed, check to see if it's causing the issue.
   • AirPort Extreme card
     
   • Matrox RTMac card
   • 128-Bit 2D/3D Professional Graphics Card
   • PC Card modem
   
   

[deanjo]

The best examples would be about BSOD in Leopard, but when users reported this apple started to delete some of their reports. It seems you don't understand Linux is not Ubuntu and why are you still talking about Linux version of hackintoshes?

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1411 (some of ideas here makes me wonder if Macos is good for newbies and if it just works?)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/27/leopard_install_problems/

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1195031&tstart=0

Those problems which you mentioned are nothing :> There's actually fine working Linux distro installed on laptops and if they decide to upgrade it they'll do it when some problems will be fixed (or they can install it on compatible hardware like apple does).

1. These hardware items may produce a kernel panic message during startup. If one of them is installed, check to see if it's causing the issue.
   • AirPort Extreme card
     
   • Matrox RTMac card
   • 128-Bit 2D/3D Professional Graphics Card
   • PC Card modem
   
   

LMAO thank you for 100% validating my point. Not 1 of those issues is kernel nor the wifi stacks related. 3rd party, yes, defective hardware, yes but not 1 example of OS X breaking itself. Thank you just made my day by completely proving yourself wrong.

[deanjo]

BTW the "BSOD" was also corrected in the re-release of the Leopard retail. All first revs were pulled from the shelves and a newer build of 10.5.0 was packaged and had safeguards looking for old versions of Unsanity and also was forced to repair of permissions before install.

[kraftman]

LMAO thank you for 100% validating my point. Not 1 of those issues is kernel related. 3rd party, yes, defective hardware, yes but not 1 example of OS X breaking itself. Thank you you just made my day.

You asked for examples where OS X doesn't work after upgrade. I'm not interested if those issues are kernel related Thanks for giving up Deanjo. You didn't answer about BSOD (it's OS X fault), if those 3rd party hardware works on Linux and Windows it's OS X fault too (they should provide some workarounds).

About those 'defective' hardware:

Update your software (this step may be done over an Internet connection or from software Installation CDs, if you have the right versions).

It seems new software fixes issue.


PC Card Modems:

Mac OS X 10.1.5 introduced a generic PC card modem driver for a variety of PC card modems. However, if after using the modem one switches to a network location for which the PC card modem port is not active, a kernel panic can occur and the computer will need to be restarted.

BTW the "BSOD" was also corrected in the re-release of the Leopard retail. All first revs were pulled from the shelves and a newer build of 10.5.0 was packaged and had safeguards looking for old versions of Unsanity and also was forced to repair of permissions before install.

I'm not interested in re-relases. First 'stable' release had this issue.

[deanjo]

You asked for examples where OS X doesn't work after upgrade. I'm not interested if those issues are kernel related Thanks for giving up Deanjo. You didn't answer about BSOD (it's OS X fault), if those 3rd party hardware works on Linux and Windows it's OS X fault too (they should provide some workarounds).

I did so answer the BSOD, completely 3rd party and botch permissions related. FYI, I wrote the work around for the unsanity BSOD.

About those 'defective' hardware:

It seems new software fixes issue.

ya it does, the 3rd party updated their code to make it work. As far as the airport goes it wasn't a software issue at all but either a defective card or a unseated card.

Apple never offered a PC card again 3rd party.

I'm not interested in re-relases. First 'stable' release had this issue.

Again, 3rd party related or a system that has bad permissions to begin with.

[kraftman]

I did so answer the BSOD, completely 3rd party and botch permissions related. FYI, I wrote the work around for the unsanity BSOD.

ya it does, the 3rd party updated their code to make it work. As far as the airport goes it wasn't a software issue at all but either a defective card or a unseated card.

Apple never offered a PC card.

Again, 3rd party related or a system that has bad permissions to begin with.

If it's 3rd party it doesn't change anything, because you were comparing preinstaled OS X to not preinstaled Linux. Btw. many problems on other operating systems are due to 3rd party.

If you want more:

http://www.newtonslore.com/2006/10/05/how-to-get-a-mac-os-x-1048-kernel-panic/

http://www.newtonslore.com/2006/10/10/mac-os-x-1048-kernel-panic-on-mac-pro-software-raided-boot-volumes/

http://www.newtonslore.com/2006/11/25/open-this-file-to-kernel-panic-your-mac/

http://www.newtonslore.com/2007/07/23/afp-searches-may-cause-mac-os-x-server-kernel-to-leak-memory-and-slow-down/

[deanjo]

If it's 3rd party it doesn't change anything, because you were comparing preinstaled OS X to not preinstaled Linux. Btw. many problems on other operating systems are due to 3rd party.

If you want more:

http://www.newtonslore.com/2006/10/05/how-to-get-a-mac-os-x-1048-kernel-panic/

http://www.newtonslore.com/2006/10/10/mac-os-x-1048-kernel-panic-on-mac-pro-software-raided-boot-volumes/

http://www.newtonslore.com/2006/11/25/open-this-file-to-kernel-panic-your-mac/

http://www.newtonslore.com/2007/07/2...and-slow-down/

You notice how you are now pointing to thing totally un-hardware related, all those issues were addressed with subsequent updates. Do you also notice how you are not no longer showing regressions? Do you really want me to go into the list of breakages of simular issues with linux? Unfortunately that would require dozens of posts as micheal has a limit on the number of characters per post. Seriously stick on topic.