Mozilla Launches A New MDN, MDN Plus Coming Soon

[mether]

You're missing the claims you made that are actually in controversy, nobody is arguing that nonprofits don't need revenue lol. You seemed to be claiming that Mozilla's executive pay should be assumed to be appropriate

Incorrect. I never made this claim. Feel free to go back and read what I said again. You however did make the claim that they throw money into the void as long as its their friends and I would like to see evidence of this claim. So far you haven't produced any.

[microcode]

You never asked for any sources, so to make an assertion that I wouldn't provide one doesn't make any sense. Next time, actually ask before assuming. Did you need a source for my point that projects that don't gain revenue are discarded by organizations typically? That seems like a blatantly obvious thing but here you go, https://www.socialvelocity.net/what-...ustainability/. Your turn.

You're missing the claims you made that are actually in controversy, nobody is arguing that nonprofits don't need revenue lol. You seemed to be claiming that Mozilla's executive pay should be assumed to be appropriate, and that MDN staff were cut because they weren't revenue-generating; my counterclaim was that Mozilla clearly is not that concerned about project revenue, since they have a lot of pure-cost "outreach" and "community" programs, and offices all over the world in expensive cities where they (prior to 'vid at least) put on events with free food, which often don't even relate to Mozilla projects. And no, I won't source that, that's my personal experience having been at several such events, and several such offices. Why does Mozilla need a hard office in Toronto?

To my knowledge, Mozilla has precisely one major revenue-generating project: the browser, where they sell default settings to consumer surveillance companies. MDN definitely has a closer relation to that than many other things Mozilla spends money on.

[mether]

You didn't (and won't) provide a source for your claim, so why should I source my counterclaim? lol.

You never asked for any sources, so to make an assertion that I wouldn't provide one doesn't make any sense. Next time, actually ask before assuming. Did you need a source for my point that projects that don't gain revenue are discarded by organizations typically? That seems like a blatantly obvious thing but here you go, https://www.socialvelocity.net/what-...ustainability/. Your turn.

[microcode]

I never said anything I have said should be accepted without question, so that's a clear straw man. Providing a simple source for your claims doesn't require this to be an editorial board, so that's pretty silly thing to say as well. If you don't have any sources for anything you have said, you are free to move on.

You didn't (and won't) provide a source for your claim, so why should I source my counterclaim? lol.

[mether]

LoL, typical; to you, your assertions should be accepted without question, but others' assertions are suspect. This is not a journal, and you are not on the editorial board.

I never said anything I have said should be accepted without question, so that's a clear straw man. Providing a simple source for your claims doesn't require this to be an editorial board, so that's pretty silly thing to say as well. If you don't have any sources for anything you have said, you are free to move on.

[microcode]

If you have evidence of this, link to it.

LoL, typical; to you, your assertions should be accepted without question, but others' assertions are suspect. This is not a journal, and you are not on the editorial board.

[mether]

That is not how Mozilla makes decisions. Anyone who's interacted with the "community outreach" side of Mozilla knows they are glad to throw money into the void, as long as it goes to their friends. Mozilla is clearly not considering revenue first, when it comes to prioritizing staff allocation; that's putting it mildly.

If you have evidence of this, link to it.

[microcode]

Whether it is an offshoot product isn't the important part of what I said and was just an example. Any non revenue generating things where they have invested in before would be an equally applicable situation.

That is not how Mozilla makes decisions. Anyone who's interacted with the "community outreach" side of Mozilla knows they are glad to throw money into the void, as long as it goes to their friends. Mozilla is clearly not considering revenue first, when it comes to prioritizing staff allocation; that's putting it mildly.

[mether]

That is what I should be seeing, probably. But I'm not.
For example, if I wanted to know whether their VPN project is paying off, I can't do that reading their annual reports. Not only is it thrown into a generic "subscriptions" category, it's also lumped together with ads revenue. For good measure.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Mozilla is doomed and I'm not in the "C-level exec should work for scraps" camp either. All I'm saying is I wish they were a bit more forthcoming about where they are and where they want to go. While being fully aware they have no obligation to care for my wish

You could mail them and ask if you care about specific numbers and if they are not ready to disclose say the specific numbers around VPN service, the worst they can do is say no. No big deal.

[bug77]

Yes, it didn't used to be but it now clearly is and even when they did get more revenue, the dependency on Google for most of their revenue put them in a precarious position. So they do have to figure out new ways to get additional revenue and that's precisely what you are seeing.

That is what I should be seeing, probably. But I'm not.
For example, if I wanted to know whether their VPN project is paying off, I can't do that reading their annual reports. Not only is it thrown into a generic "subscriptions" category, it's also lumped together with ads revenue. For good measure.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Mozilla is doomed and I'm not in the "C-level exec should work for scraps" camp either. All I'm saying is I wish they were a bit more forthcoming about where they are and where they want to go. While being fully aware they have no obligation to care for my wish