Originally posted by bug77
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KWinFT 5.24 Released - Continues To Advance Its Wayland Support, Expand On Wlroots
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If this software is useful and full-ready, it could be adapted for pure Wayland purpose in order to divide PLASMA based on X11 and PLASMA based on Wayland, so to avoid the XWayland necessity. The reason to have two different graphical stacks is to reduce the complexity on the management of the Os software alongside the possibility to offer two different solutions to the end users based on hardware specs.
It's apparent at this specific context of development evolution, how many users take benefits from Wayland unlike other users because of hardware conformance issues. Moreover, some users also prefer the one to the other one just only for subjective convictions. Simplification and flexibility are the way to go in my modest opinion. If this step was realizable, KDe PLASMA could be the first major graphical solution based on pure Wayland.Last edited by Azrael5; 11 February 2022, 09:03 AM.
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I don't understand why this has to be a KDE only problem, Mutter also supports both Xorg and Wayland. However if I were to start developing a composer I would do it for wayland, it makes no sense today to support in a new Xorg compositor. The user who replaces Kwin with KWinFT today has more problems than solutions, but this does not mean that in the future it can be different, but at the moment this is the situation. I didn't like those lines about KDE innovation either, but everyone is free to say what they want, but then don't say it's KDE's fault for these strained relationships, I've never heard a KDE dev speak, in a negative way on KWinFT, the opposite is true.
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Originally posted by Quackdoc View Postgamescope works as a standalone compositor too. I regularly use it directly from TTY for some older games windows apps. I suspect that steamos will be doing something similar
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Originally posted by Charlie68 View PostI don't understand why this has to be a KDE only problem, Mutter also supports both Xorg and Wayland. However if I were to start developing a composer I would do it for wayland, it makes no sense today to support in a new Xorg compositor. The user who replaces Kwin with KWinFT today has more problems than solutions, but this does not mean that in the future it can be different, but at the moment this is the situation. I didn't like those lines about KDE innovation either, but everyone is free to say what they want, but then don't say it's KDE's fault for these strained relationships, I've never heard a KDE dev speak, in a negative way on KWinFT, the opposite is true.
However KWin does not have the luxury of ignoring X just yet. I, for one, a thankful that because of the open source nature of the project, alternatives ca be explored. The amount of drama around what's going on, is mostly negligible. If KWinFT proves its worth, I'm sure a way of displacing KWin will be found when the time comes. And if KWin figures things out first, well, that's that...
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Originally posted by bug77 View Post
I believe that exactly what Martin Graesslin said: KWin is an X compositor. If he was solely focused on Wayland, he'd start from scratch.
However KWin does not have the luxury of ignoring X just yet. I, for one, a thankful that because of the open source nature of the project, alternatives ca be explored. The amount of drama around what's going on, is mostly negligible. If KWinFT proves its worth, I'm sure a way of displacing KWin will be found when the time comes. And if KWin figures things out first, well, that's that...
Mutter was developed for Xorg and then evolved to support Wayland as well, it's the exact same path that Kwin did, with different timelines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutter_(software)
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Most recent KWinFT running inside a Debian VM:
Thank you Roman.
The script to build KWinFT from git HEAD (download necessary dependencies, set up files, compile, ...) on a Debian system
is being released to the Public Domain ("CC0" "No Rights Reserved") by me.
You may copy it, modify it, do whatever you like with it.
You may host it on your GitLab, modify it, do whatever you please with it. "You" meaning everyone interested.
IT ALSO COMES WITH ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY! USE AT YOUR OWN RISK! Check it before you do something silly.
Please read the section at the beginning of the file.
Have fun!
Download is here -> link
Start by opening the session with Konsole, e.g.:
Code:source ~/k/kwinft-plasma-meta/kde/plasma-desktop/build/prefix.sh dbus-run-session kwin_wayland --exit-with-session konsole >stdout.txt 2>stderr.txt
Code:source ~/k/kwinft-plasma-meta/kde/plasma-desktop/build/prefix.sh dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland 2>&1 | tee ~/my-kwinft-output
Last edited by reba; 11 February 2022, 03:33 PM.
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I think it's an interesting project. I'm sure KWin has its baggage, but the same time has been very stable for me.
Maybe that's the issue with innovation too, KWin has more focus on stability, which for me is a good thing.
Will be interesting to see the future of this, and if it will get adopted by distros as default.
I will try it from time to time, if just to check if I grow a fancy for it.
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Originally posted by bug77 View PostI believe that exactly what Martin Graesslin said: KWin is an X compositor. If he was solely focused on Wayland, he'd start from scratch.
However KWin does not have the luxury of ignoring X just yet. I, for one, a thankful that because of the open source nature of the project, alternatives ca be explored. The amount of drama around what's going on, is mostly negligible. If KWinFT proves its worth, I'm sure a way of displacing KWin will be found when the time comes. And if KWin figures things out first, well, that's that...
1)Ship of Theseus method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
2)Rebuild new code base.
Both in the end result in a completely new ship. Ship of Theseus method things can get messy but you normally always have somewhat functional boat where rebuild new code base completely you have a gap without a boat.
Of course you have the option of doing both at the same time.
Originally posted by Charlie68 View PostI agree with everything, what I don't understand is why when it comes to Mutter, nobody raises the problem?
Mutter was developed for Xorg and then evolved to support Wayland as well, it's the exact same path that Kwin did, with different timelines.
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Originally posted by oiaohm View PostThere are two different major methods here.
1)Ship of Theseus method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
2)Rebuild new code base.
Both in the end result in a completely new ship. Ship of Theseus method things can get messy but you normally always have somewhat functional boat where rebuild new code base completely you have a gap without a boat.
Of course you have the option of doing both at the same time.
And as I've said before, Wayland is not just newer, it has a completely different architecture (for better or worse), so supporting both X and Wayland at the same time is quite different from supporting, say, IPv4 and IPv6.
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